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[Music]

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and good

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well it's still morning so good morning

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from philadelphia frank here with

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another

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episode of ufo news network sunday we're

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ready to go here we've got a fantastic

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guest

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and let's go to my co-host

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chant hannah to do the honors let's go

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chad

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thank you frank i really appreciate uh

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you're uh having this wonderful guest on

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today it's going to be a very special

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show

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we have dr paul michael paul masters

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and he's a professor of biological

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anthropology at montana tech in view to

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montana

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where he is researching hominin

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evolutionary anatomy archaeology

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biomedicine astrobiology and the physics

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of time

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and time travel he has spent over two

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decades examining a theory

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the ufo phenomenon could be our distant

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human descendants

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returning from the future to study us in

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their own evolutionary past

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after receiving a phd in anthropology

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from ohio state university dr master

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spent the following decade

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uniting multiple scientific disciplines

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to create a hypothesis regarding

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this unexplained phenomena remaining

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vigilant in his own skepticism

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dr masters continues this research about

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ufos

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with the method of inquiry firmly rooted

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in science

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and the principles of parsimony a dr

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masters non-fiction science book

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identified

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flying objects a multi

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multi-disciplinary scientific

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approach to the ufo phenomenon

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challenges readers to consider new

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possibilities

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about our ever-evolving understanding

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time and time travel

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please welcome dr michael palmasters to

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our show

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hey thanks guys i appreciate uh you

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having me on it's great to be here

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thanks doc thank you for being on with

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us doctor

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i wanted to jump right into it and ask

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you a question

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um uh it might be a little long but i'll

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go ahead and bring up the drake

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uh updated drake equation um

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i know that you're familiar with the

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drake equation um

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how does your theory on extra

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tempastrials from the future

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fit into this equation if at all

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um well i mean it is an important

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question as to

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whether or not there's extraterrestrial

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life elsewhere in the universe

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and there's very certainly is i

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i don't see any reason why it wouldn't

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happen elsewhere considering that it

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happened here and so quickly after it

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could

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um the the book and the research in the

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book

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mostly focuses on how even if there is

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life on other planets it isn't likely to

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have anything to do with the ufo

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phenomenon and i list a number of

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reasons

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rooted in largely evolutionary biology

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and aspects of the specific hominin

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evolutionary history of our own species

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and our own unique

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uh past both culturally and biologically

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and how those things are

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not too likely to happen the exact same

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way

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they did here that we would get upright

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walking bipedal forms

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uh who can communicate with us their own

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languages who have technology that

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has advanced beyond ours but is most

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likely built on top

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of what we see now in modern times and

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and having

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similar characteristics even beyond

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bipedalism

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the five digits on each hand and foot

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having eyes

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a brain in the same place both slightly

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larger than our own

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seems to indicate that they are just

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simply us from the future so

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in looking at the drake equation and and

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the probability of life on other planets

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it

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guess that that

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it's important to know it's important to

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research this but in the context of the

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ufo phenomenon

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i uh don't think and i offer a lot of

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support evidence to back up that it

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probably doesn't have anything to do

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with extraterrestrial life

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at least in the way it's been

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conceptualized previously

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fantastic and just for our listener's

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sake so they understand a little bit

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behind what i'm asking the equation was

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written in 1961 by frank

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drake uh not for

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purposes of quantifying the number of

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civilizations but

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as a way to stimulate the scientific

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dialogue at the first scientific meeting

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on the search for extraterrestrial

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intelligence which was uh which is study

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and also the drake equation go ahead

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doctor please i was just going to point

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out too that an important part of the

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drake equation which i also mentioned in

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the book is his

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l variable you know he talks about the

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likelihood that there would be other

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stars with planets that are habitable

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where life could emerge where

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intelligent life could emerge

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but then his l factor in the equation is

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how long

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a civilization would exist and exist in

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a capacity where we would be able to

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um communicate with them and and that's

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an important factor it's not just

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whether or not this could happen

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again somewhere else but whether or not

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it could happen

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on a planet close enough to us and at

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the same time and sorry to interrupt it

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you may have been

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uh about to touch on that anyway but i i

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think it's important to consider that

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too there's there has to be a

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synchronicity

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uh a a temporal consistency

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if there was to be another humanoid

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alien creature on a different planet

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somewhat close to us

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well and also i want to remind you i

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need you to interrupt me at any time

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because this interview is all about you

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so anytime i'm talking

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please do i encourage you to please

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interrupt me

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and i'm glad you said that because uh

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part of your interrupting me

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really enlightens the listeners

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regarding your perspectives and how you

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feel about something

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so um i i look forward to you

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interrupting me while i'm talking

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because i'm trying to learn more about

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what you have to say

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no that's fine please don't actually

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it's a much more lively discussion that

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way

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um also i just wanted to let our

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listeners know um

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uh aside from doing research on the l

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equation that

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the doctor brought up so eloquently

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uh the other part folks need to know is

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the drake equation puts a numeric value

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to the likelihood as the doctor was

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saying extraterrestrial especially

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intelligent life exists

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anywhere other than earth also separate

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from that hypothesis

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math on the lowest estimate for stars in

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the milky way 100 billion

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the current estimate is there are 1

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billion earth-like planets

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and 100 000 intelligent civilizations

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in our galaxy uh doctor is your theory

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on ets from the future

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sort of a unified theory of everything

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regarding ets in general

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no i wouldn't say so i i think it adds

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clarity to a lot of

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the specific aspects of

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this phenomenon uh with regard to

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things like who they are what they're

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doing here why they're doing these

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things why they're

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so consistently reported doing the same

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types of things but

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it's not something that until we have

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full disclosure and

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the opportunity to really converse

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with these individuals ourselves and to

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ask questions that there's going to be a

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lot of unanswered questions and i don't

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i don't claim to have all of the answers

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by any stretch of the imagination

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all i can do is synthesize

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available evidence what we have now what

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we know now

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and also be very forthright about what

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we can't know now

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and i feel like a big part of this book

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was trying to just present a model

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that can explain as much as possible but

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also

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acknowledge that there's a lot of things

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that are going to take time

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before we do really fully comprehend it

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i have a yes or no question for you

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doctor because i have

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quite a few questions to run through so

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i was just wondering if you wouldn't

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mind

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allowing me the privilege of asking you

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a yes or no question

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okay okay my question is

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regarding your book do you plan on

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updating it

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at any point in your lifetime

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is it safe to assume the whole reason

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why et's are coming to us from the

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future

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is due to a dire situation we are headed

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towards now

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um i mean maybe at

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some point in the future we could back

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ourselves into a corner or create

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some scenario that's not ideal but

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i'm sure they're also aware that there's

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no way to change

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the future if they have such a mastery

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of time

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and based on what we know regarding time

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in the physics of time specifically

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it doesn't seem like they would put

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efforts into really trying to

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change things unless they had always

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already have been doing that which is a

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very obscure

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answer to that question i guess but um

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but no i mean

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certainly if you look at recent trends

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we have

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climate change problems pollution

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problems and

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i mentioned in the book some aspects of

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just

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things that we don't necessarily put a

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lot of emphasis on but could be

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potential problems in the future related

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to genetic homogenization where

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we don't have separate interbreeding

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populations around

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the world anymore since the early stages

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of european colonialism we've all sort

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of been amalgamated

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into one large interbreeding population

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to the extent that earth has become

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simply one population of humans so

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there could be aspects of that in the

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future

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in which a way to alleviate some of the

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problems of inbreeding and an increase

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in homozygous recessive traits which are

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largely what causes the problems

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that stem from inbreeding it may be that

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they

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are sampling gametes from the past

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taking sperm and egg samples from

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00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:32,079
individual

291
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,640
groups haplotypes that didn't persist

292
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,320
into the future as a way of introducing

293
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:38,320
novel genes and helping to

294
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:41,360
eliminate some problems with the state

295
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,079
of global

296
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:44,880
incest essentially so there there may be

297
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:47,120
aspects of the phenomenon where

298
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,160
it's it's coming back to intervene

299
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:52,480
in some way that helps their own

300
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:53,440
situation

301
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,480
but i don't know if there's

302
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:58,399
maybe at some point in the future but as

303
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,920
of right now i don't think there's a lot

304
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:01,360
of evidence that they're really trying

305
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:02,639
to change

306
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:06,240
anything and if you look at most of the

307
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,839
the modern physics research would

308
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,600
indicate that there really is no way to

309
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:10,959
change the past it's all

310
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:14,240
already a part of this massive

311
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:17,519
uh block time all moments

312
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,560
within the universe and with all time

313
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:22,720
exist simultaneously so if they're

314
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,760
moving in

315
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:25,920
in and around these different slices of

316
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:26,959
block time

317
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:29,279
they're already a part of that past

318
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:30,720
we're already a part of

319
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:32,959
of them in the future in this long

320
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,399
history of connections

321
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,200
across space time so i don't know i mean

322
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:38,639
that's another one of those questions

323
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,680
that i guess will

324
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:41,519
take a while to answer what is the

325
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:42,800
ultimate goal

326
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,800
of these missions to the past is it just

327
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:47,200
to learn more about

328
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,760
humanity and our long history as a

329
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:51,519
species and in the way i would

330
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,079
investigate

331
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:54,720
the past as a paleoanthropologist today

332
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:55,200
or

333
00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:59,920
aspect to it that they're trying to

334
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,839
uh help with some problems that they're

335
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,600
experiencing that only

336
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:05,519
time and visiting different periods of

337
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,720
time can help with so

338
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,800
i'd be excited to to really know the

339
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,639
answer to that question too but it it

340
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:12,240
may be a while before we

341
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:15,519
we actually do have answers to that yeah

342
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,920
uh

343
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,240
that actually led up to another question

344
00:13:21,269 --> 00:13:20,240
i had so you might have to repeat

345
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,279
yourself because

346
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,920
um i do still want to ask that question

347
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,360
but i'm sure you'll still have other

348
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:27,680
thought processes to share with us so

349
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:30,160
uh before i ask this question let me

350
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,920
preface it with a story

351
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,000
that i wanted to share with you it's

352
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:35,760
called the mimsy

353
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:38,240
mimsy were the boro groves or boro goes

354
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:39,760
i'm sorry do you remember that mimsy

355
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:41,920
story they did a movie on it

356
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:44,399
it's about uh millions of years in the

357
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,440
distant

358
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:47,519
future a post-human scientist is

359
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:49,839
attempting to build a time machine

360
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,639
and tests it by sending the box with the

361
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:54,079
hastily gathered batch

362
00:14:01,829 --> 00:14:00,470
eventually really what happens is this

363
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:01,839
box of toys

364
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,040
which is uh built on uh

365
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:07,040
technology from that period of time

366
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:08,959
millions of years in the future

367
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:12,320
kids find it and these kids that find

368
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:12,720
these

369
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:16,480
toys in a way luckily for them their

370
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:17,760
parents are

371
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,959
overly preoccupied with their own lives

372
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:22,720
yet they do manage to notice a few

373
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:24,160
unusual things going on with their

374
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,040
children

375
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,560
the point is the the kids suspect

376
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:31,279
the kids psychologist suspects that

377
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:32,240
these toys

378
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:35,360
are from uh are of extraterrestrial

379
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:36,240
origin

380
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:39,519
they're definitely from the future this

381
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:43,120
box from the future changes their lives

382
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,720
that's a fascinating story i wanted our

383
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:46,240
listeners to look up and i was hoping

384
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,680
you actually knew about that story but

385
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,519
either way i wanted to ask you

386
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:52,079
can et's coming from the future into our

387
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,360
own timeline

388
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:55,680
result in a confusing situation for

389
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,560
ourselves

390
00:15:00,870 --> 00:14:59,120
in our current and future timeline now

391
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,880
you already sort of answered that

392
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:01,920
question

393
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:04,959
but as you know science fiction is all

394
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,320
over this topic with movies and

395
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,880
stories and by the way that story i just

396
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:12,399
uh read a little bit

397
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:16,880
about to you was from 1943.

398
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,560
um yeah i wanted to know again

399
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:23,040
are you sure and i i think i already

400
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,639
know your answer but are you sure that

401
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:26,399
e.t is coming into

402
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:30,079
our timeline can it change

403
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,839
anything for us whatsoever just by their

404
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,000
action of observing us i know that goes

405
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,079
into quantum theory possibly

406
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,240
but wanted to know again your answer on

407
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:42,800
that well it's it's more of

408
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:45,839
an aspect of the word change okay

409
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,759
and saying change it indicates that

410
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:48,959
there was some

411
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:51,759
other timeline that existed before and

412
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,240
that's

413
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:54,160
not necessarily the case there there are

414
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:55,440
ways in which

415
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:58,639
the future can dictate events in the

416
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,360
past

417
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,839
um if the future present and the

418
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,120
pastoral won

419
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,279
and none of them are ahead of or behind

420
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:06,480
the other one

421
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:08,720
in the presence of a time machine then

422
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:09,600
they all

423
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:12,880
are part of the same timeline and

424
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,800
in that sense you can't change anything

425
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:16,800
it's always existed if you

426
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,279
are a part of the past you've always

427
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:21,199
been a part of that past and always will

428
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:21,519
be

429
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:26,959
non-disruptive your

430
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,600
anything that you did in that past has

431
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:31,519
already time shifted

432
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:33,600
as that person coming back from the

433
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:34,560
future so

434
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,440
there's no there's no real it's just

435
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,120
that word change i guess that's

436
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:40,880
problematic but no you can absolutely

437
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:43,519
have things that exist in the past that

438
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:45,279
are caused by something in the future

439
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,240
and that's what

440
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,600
challenges people the most i think about

441
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:51,440
really digging through the weeds of this

442
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:53,600
extra tempestu hypothesis is we're used

443
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:54,399
to

444
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:57,600
thinking of the past dictating what

445
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:58,320
happens

446
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,079
in the future that there's this cause

447
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,920
and effect that exists

448
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:04,160
and is very understandable to us in

449
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,280
linear time and

450
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:07,600
even from a young age kindergarten first

451
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:09,919
grade second grade we're doing these

452
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,240
exercises to put things in order where

453
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,839
kids are shown pictures and they have to

454
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,439
say well this happened before that which

455
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,880
happened before that but

456
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,640
in the presence of a time machine those

457
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:21,360
things cease to exist in that capacity

458
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:22,559
you can have

459
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:25,520
instances of things from the future

460
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:27,439
influencing things in the past

461
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:30,720
that then create this consistent loop

462
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:33,760
throughout those seemingly separated but

463
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:35,679
also integrated blocks of

464
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:38,320
of block time or landscape time those

465
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,039
different

466
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:42,240
parts of it so so yeah it's there's

467
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:43,840
definitely ways in which

468
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:47,280
you can have these time travelers

469
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,240
confusing

470
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,919
situations i feel like that's exactly

471
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:51,120
what's happening and that's why we're

472
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,400
all confused

473
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:55,039
about this phenomenon is they're they're

474
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,720
interjecting themselves in the past

475
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:58,080
periods at a time when we don't

476
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:59,360
understand

477
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,280
who they are what they're doing here why

478
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,280
they're doing these things and because

479
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,039
they're ubiquitously seen coming down

480
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,600
from the sky it's natural to assume that

481
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,280
they must be from a different planet

482
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:10,880
somewhere else that they're coming from

483
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,840
space so

484
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:14,400
so i think it has confused us in that

485
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,880
sense

486
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:17,200
and there are ways in which things that

487
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:17,919
they do

488
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,440
in the past could leave some trace

489
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:23,679
leading into the future the if the

490
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:25,039
roswell crash

491
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:26,559
really did occur and they were from the

492
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:29,280
future and we were suddenly gifted

493
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:31,919
technology from a distant point in our

494
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:32,960
cultural

495
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:34,720
evolutionary future then that can

496
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:37,520
certainly help create those same things

497
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,039
that eventually

498
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:41,600
will come crashing back into 1947 again

499
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:43,919
so there's this again self-consistency

500
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,720
across

501
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:46,080
those different periods of time and i

502
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,520
discussed this a lot in the book because

503
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:49,280
i think it's very important this

504
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:52,240
aspect of what are typically referred to

505
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,600
as paradoxes

506
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,840
but in the con in the context of navakob

507
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,520
self-consistency principle

508
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,240
and most of his colleagues have have

509
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:02,559
backed this up in numerous papers in

510
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:04,640
both modern physics and quantum

511
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,840
mechanics but

512
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:08,160
there is uh there is an inherent

513
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:09,919
self-consistency it's not even something

514
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,280
we choose to do

515
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:13,600
so if you for instance if you went back

516
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,720
in time

517
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:17,520
and met yourself at age five we know

518
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:18,880
with absolute certainty

519
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,919
that when you grow up to be that age

520
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:24,320
that you remember seeing yourself at age

521
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:25,039
five

522
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,640
you will go back in time and visit

523
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,559
yourself at age five you will

524
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,640
always do that because you always have

525
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,080
done that it's just the moment

526
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,640
structured that way those two events

527
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,000
that are separated

528
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:37,840
across different regions of block time

529
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,919
are still integrated and always will be

530
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:40,640
so

531
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:43,360
yeah i think i think it's it's the time

532
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,280
in itself is confusing and there's a lot

533
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,200
of ways in which them coming back

534
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:48,559
through time

535
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,679
it has and will continue to for a while

536
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:54,640
add a confusion to our own sense of

537
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:55,600
reality

538
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:58,559
and evolutionary biology and cultural

539
00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:59,760
evolution but

540
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:02,080
i think i feel like over time as our

541
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:03,760
technology evolves

542
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,440
and our ability to understand aspects of

543
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:09,600
our own existence and things like

544
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:10,720
consciousness

545
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,240
and um just more about the brain

546
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:17,120
in general i think we'll start to piece

547
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:19,200
piece this together and it'll all

548
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:22,000
uh start to become much more lucid i'm

549
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,760
glad you brought that up a doctor

550
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,760
regarding the navakov cell consistency

551
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:27,200
principle i'll cover that in just a

552
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,080
second

553
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:31,120
um uh also i'm glad that you covered

554
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,600
the possible because you did you did

555
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,200
acknowledge i'm pretty sure i heard you

556
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,640
acknowledge a little bit

557
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:38,880
that there could be a sort of and these

558
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,080
aren't your words

559
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,200
but my translation that uh there could

560
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:45,280
be some echoes or ripple-like effects of

561
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,640
what another person may have said or

562
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,159
done in the past

563
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:51,280
possibly the navikov self-consistency

564
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,960
principle the doctor brought up

565
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,559
just so everybody can look that up that

566
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:56,320
is n as in no

567
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,840
o v is in victor i-k-o-v

568
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,240
self-consistency principle that is also

569
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:04,480
known as a navicov self-consistency

570
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:05,600
conjecture

571
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:08,320
and a law of controversy uh conservation

572
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,280
of history

573
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,799
and that was developed by russian

574
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:13,360
physicist igor navakov in the mid

575
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,640
uh 1980s and he intended it to solve the

576
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:18,960
problem of paradoxes and time travel

577
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:21,679
which doctors so carefully covered um in

578
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:22,480
philosophy

579
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:26,080
doctor i wanted to bring this up to you

580
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:30,000
ideology is a science uh of ideas

581
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:32,400
the study of their origin and nature now

582
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:33,039
idol

583
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:35,360
ideology politically is a totally

584
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:36,880
different definition

585
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,870
but in philosophy it's the science of

586
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,559
ideas the study of their origin in

587
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:47,840
nature

588
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,559
does your id et's from the future

589
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:52,240
hypothesis

590
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:55,520
fall under this categorization and if

591
00:22:03,350 --> 00:21:59,760
yes or no why um yeah i think it does

592
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:03,360
it's just it's an idea and it's

593
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:07,360
the study of ideas it synthesizes

594
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,600
modern knowledge and ideas from a lot of

595
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:11,600
different fields to

596
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:14,720
put forth a new

597
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:18,000
somewhat more amalgamated uh

598
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,320
idea that draws from these different

599
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:22,320
places so yeah i would say that

600
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:25,760
that it does fall into that category as

601
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:29,440
you you defined it in the context of

602
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,559
logic and philosophy absolutely okay

603
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:34,640
well as a noun it is defined as the body

604
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:35,520
of doctrine

605
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,960
myth belief that guides an individual a

606
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:40,480
social movement

607
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,840
institution class or large group so if

608
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:44,880
it was

609
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:47,919
a thought along that

610
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:50,799
idea as a noun defined as a body of

611
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:51,760
doctrine myth

612
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:55,039
belief that kind of thing that guides an

613
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:57,360
individual a social movement institution

614
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:58,720
class or large group

615
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,200
does this make you an ideologist

616
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:03,120
regarding your thought process

617
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:06,240
that iets are from the future because it

618
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,919
appears as though this hypothesis is

619
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,120
what you're basing

620
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,720
your research on now i know that sounds

621
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,400
obvious i'm just asking

622
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,640
does this make you an ideologist in that

623
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:15,679
regard

624
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:19,280
well i i don't know i mean in a way

625
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:22,240
the model really isn't based on this

626
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,679
phenomenon too

627
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,600
in fact i've i've said before that you

628
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:27,440
can remove

629
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,400
the whole ufo the the reports and

630
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,480
the different accounts close encounters

631
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:36,159
and abduction reports and

632
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:37,760
and it still can stand on its own

633
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:39,360
because it it

634
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,480
looks at long-term evolutionary changes

635
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,880
in the hominin lineage both related to

636
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,720
our biological evolution and our

637
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,120
cultural evolution and looks at how

638
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:51,440
even in spite of changing environments

639
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,799
and climates and

640
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,480
humans moving into different parts of

641
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:55,919
the world and having to deal with

642
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,760
different predator prayer relationships

643
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,679
and social changes and political and

644
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,799
economic changes

645
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:03,360
these same enduring trends of

646
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:04,480
neurocranial

647
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:07,360
globularity encephalization increased

648
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:08,880
brain size throughout most of that

649
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:09,520
period

650
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:11,840
a reduction in facial anatomy an

651
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,320
increase in paedomorphic characteristics

652
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:16,080
what is the retention of juveniles

653
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,840
traits into adulthood

654
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,760
things like since agriculture even

655
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:21,760
things like self-domestication

656
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:24,720
cranial facial feminization it it's not

657
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:26,640
making predictions about what types of

658
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,520
things will

659
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:30,480
influence us in the future it's very

660
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:30,960
much

661
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,200
stays away from any sort of speculation

662
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,640
into that but it just looks

663
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,279
at these enduring trends throughout the

664
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:39,039
hominin past and how if those were to

665
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:40,559
continue into the future

666
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,320
this is kind of what we would look like

667
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:44,000
and kind of be like and that just so

668
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,679
happens to be

669
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:47,600
the same form that is so commonly

670
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,080
reported in these instances of

671
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,400
of close encounter so it ties this into

672
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,480
that phenomenon but it certainly doesn't

673
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,080
hinge on it i wouldn't say

674
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,320
um but yeah i mean under that definition

675
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:00,480
of of a movement of

676
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,279
trying to gain knowledge on a broader

677
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,960
societal level i would say

678
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:07,039
it kind of doesn't and sometimes you

679
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,080
know little

680
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,960
slight variations in the definition or

681
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:12,400
for the same word can be

682
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:14,240
very different it kind of reminds me of

683
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:15,760
the term academic

684
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:18,240
it means both relating to scholarship

685
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:20,000
and learning and education

686
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,279
but also something that really doesn't

687
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:25,440
have any relevance in a functional sense

688
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,279
it's only theoretical insurance was

689
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:29,760
and if you look at those two definitions

690
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:30,960
for the same word they

691
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:33,279
kind of seem to be almost in conflict

692
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:34,559
with one another and

693
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:38,000
yes um i use that term in my website

694
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,600
i think on there it says an academic a

695
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,760
multidisciplinary academic approach to

696
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:45,279
the ufo phenomenon and i

697
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,480
actually laughed a little when i did

698
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:48,400
that it was partly because i ran out of

699
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,120
letters

700
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,200
and i couldn't put the word scientific

701
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:52,799
in there it wouldn't fit and the website

702
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:54,559
wouldn't let me do it but

703
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,480
so i used academic and kind of chuckled

704
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,640
to myself about that because it's

705
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,400
it's basically saying that this is

706
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:02,320
educational scholarship but also

707
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,960
it's it's theoretical and conceptual and

708
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:06,320
um

709
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:09,600
no

710
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:12,720
yeah i guess i guess in in both senses

711
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:15,760
of the word it would be an ideology

712
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:19,600
um at least as far as as what you just

713
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:21,919
explained regarding that the definition

714
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:22,640
of that

715
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,960
and i'm glad you uh made that uh

716
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:25,679
connection

717
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:29,039
um regarding what i just said and why i

718
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:29,840
separated

719
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:34,000
um uh the word uh in the in that manner

720
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,880
the uh

721
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:37,520
the concept i brought up to you um do

722
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,080
you believe

723
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,799
in a carnation doctor because dr david

724
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,919
jacobs says

725
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:43,679
he has had patients who claim through

726
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,919
hypnotic regression sessions to be ets

727
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:47,200
from the future

728
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,720
so do you believe in reincarnation

729
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:53,440
uh i do actually yeah i don't discuss

730
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,840
that

731
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,919
in the book and i don't really have

732
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,360
anything to back it up

733
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,279
other than my own personal experiences

734
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,039
which is anecdotal and

735
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:03,279
we certainly try to avoid that in

736
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,039
scientific studies but no i

737
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,600
i personally believe and this is just my

738
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:09,360
own personal belief system

739
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:11,679
that when we die we're reincarnated as

740
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:12,400
ourselves

741
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,279
at the time of birth and that that

742
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:16,799
quintessential light at the end of the

743
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,279
tunnel

744
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,200
is just the lights in the hospital room

745
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:21,520
when we come back into the world

746
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,840
at the very beginning and live the same

747
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,240
life over and over

748
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:28,559
for for all of eternity and and the

749
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,440
reason that

750
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:32,480
i've come to that conclusion for my own

751
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,120
purposes

752
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:35,760
is because i have very intense deja vu

753
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:36,320
and i see

754
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,520
things from the future that play out

755
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,880
exactly as

756
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:43,200
i dreamt them and it indicates to me

757
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,279
that i've lived this life over and over

758
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,480
and these things

759
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,960
in my future are already a part of that

760
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:50,480
and i catch little glimpses of it

761
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,279
through

762
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,520
my subconscious in a dreaming state

763
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:54,880
which also indicates to me that

764
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:56,080
consciousness

765
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,120
isn't really bound by the same rules of

766
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,960
of space and time that our physical

767
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:02,159
forms are

768
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,279
um and and so yeah that's that's kind of

769
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,600
the best way i've been able to explain

770
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:09,760
this very real phenomenon that i

771
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:10,720
experience

772
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,840
in a pretty regular basis actually is

773
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,320
in the context of reincarnation as

774
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,679
ourselves

775
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,760
at the time we die going back to the

776
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,279
time we start

777
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,960
well i i have to ask you a little bit

778
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:24,640
more on that uh what you just said if

779
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:25,360
you don't mind

780
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:26,880
and if you don't want to expound on it

781
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:28,159
that's fine but i just want to make a

782
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,880
statement

783
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:31,440
i have interviewed and i counted frank

784
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:32,240
by the way

785
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:35,679
to verify this about 70 people within

786
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:36,399
the last

787
00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:39,520
within a three-month period of time and

788
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:42,159
i have to tell you out of all of the

789
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:43,840
people i've interviewed you have to be

790
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:45,919
one of the most unique

791
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:49,520
uh folks with in regards to the

792
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:55,029
share your perspectives your thought

793
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:56,480
processes

794
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,880
just you as taomi all the time doctor

795
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,320
whenever i talk to you i've interviewed

796
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:02,240
you a few times now

797
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,880
but uh wanted to uh uh talk to you about

798
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,720
this reincarnation uh

799
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,320
idea that i brought up and and the

800
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:10,240
reason why i bring it up is this

801
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:12,320
if there are ets from the future

802
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:13,760
visiting us

803
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:17,600
uh strange strangely

804
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:20,720
is it possible for you or i to be one of

805
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:21,200
them

806
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:26,630
hmm

807
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:29,679
and how would that all work

808
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,279
i've been sort of burning to ask you

809
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:33,120
this question for a long time so

810
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:35,200
i'm glad i've had the opportunity oh

811
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:36,880
yeah that i enjoy that's kind of

812
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,520
directed

813
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:40,080
at you yeah it's a mind-bending question

814
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:41,120
to say the least

815
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:44,240
um i guess at some point

816
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,360
in our future if you know

817
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:50,399
say this is just a hypothetical but say

818
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:54,159
um tomorrow they decide that we

819
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:56,480
have gained a collective consciousness

820
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:57,840
that would

821
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:00,640
allow us to understand who they are and

822
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,600
what they're doing

823
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:04,240
without some sort of h.g wells orson

824
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:05,760
welles type of

825
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,279
public panic then uh

826
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:11,440
if if there is disclosure and there's

827
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:12,799
interaction

828
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:15,840
across different periods of time

829
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:18,960
and we continue into the future say you

830
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:20,080
know we're in our

831
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:23,919
late 70s or 80s or something and

832
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,720
people are picking each other up from

833
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:28,159
different periods of time

834
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:29,679
you know even though we don't have the

835
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,600
technology to do it ourselves by the

836
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,120
time we get to be

837
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:34,880
at an advanced age if there is

838
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,120
connection among different periods

839
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,799
people coming from the future who do

840
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,640
have that technology there's really no

841
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,159
reason why they couldn't pick somebody

842
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:44,159
up from any other period

843
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:47,039
and take them to a past period that

844
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,240
predates

845
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:50,080
the the creation of their own time

846
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,679
machine so i i guess

847
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,360
and and that would be awesome and i hope

848
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:54,720
that is the case because

849
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,120
it would be super cool to get picked up

850
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,039
um by yourself in the future

851
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,159
and just go go whizzing around time and

852
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,240
checking out different periods of time

853
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:06,240
and i i would love that opportunity yeah

854
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:07,840
you could be your own uber and tip

855
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:08,559
yourself

856
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,519
yeah exactly and i mean again what i do

857
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:13,039
is i study the past that's what

858
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:14,399
anthropology

859
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:21,440
specifically is to investigate

860
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:24,799
our human past so if if somebody from

861
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:26,799
the future was looking to pick somebody

862
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,360
up and

863
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:29,519
take them back to see that pass directly

864
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:31,519
i would be the first to volunteer for

865
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:33,440
that i think that would be awesome

866
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,200
and i mentioned this early in the book

867
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:38,000
that we in doing archaeology

868
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:41,440
and studying past hominins we have

869
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,799
skeletal material

870
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:45,600
fossils teeth but we don't have the

871
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,159
ability

872
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:48,640
yet to just observe them and to watch

873
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,000
them and see what they do

874
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:52,559
and we could learn so much more in that

875
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:53,279
capacity

876
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:55,200
we we wouldn't have to argue amongst

877
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,480
ourselves about

878
00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:00,000
the origins of agriculture or um you

879
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:00,720
know different

880
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,840
major events in human history and

881
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:06,000
and how we interpret the symbolism of

882
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:07,600
past groups we could just

883
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,519
look at look at it look how they use

884
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,799
these the

885
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,720
the what we find today what we refer to

886
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:14,159
as material material

887
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,519
remains we could know directly what

888
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,519
those things did what their function was

889
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,840
what their symbolism was to these people

890
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,440
if we could just simply

891
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:25,919
watch them so yeah i think i think that

892
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,960
would be awesome i

893
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:29,600
i don't know i mean it depends on at

894
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:31,440
what point there'll be some sort of

895
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,760
intertemporal disclosure i think that

896
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,600
would have to happen first

897
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,679
there's also even though like i

898
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:39,679
mentioned it's not possible to change

899
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:41,600
the past it certainly complicates things

900
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,159
there's no

901
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,559
doubt about that you know what would be

902
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:46,480
the effects on the stock market

903
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,840
or um any number of other things that

904
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:51,440
we've come to

905
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,640
just accept as normal in our society

906
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:56,960
it would definitely force us to

907
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:57,919
reconsider

908
00:33:01,190 --> 00:33:00,080
a lot of preconceived notions about our

909
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,200
humanity

910
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,519
if that were to happen and and i think

911
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,000
that could be dangerous in some capacity

912
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,640
so that it may be a while before

913
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,720
there is any sort of intertemporal

914
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,919
disclosure but if

915
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,360
it did happen yeah i think that would be

916
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:15,120
great to be a part of that

917
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:17,440
to be able to to move through time with

918
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,320
them

919
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:20,960
i wanted to let our listeners know one

920
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:22,720
other reason why

921
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:25,919
i felt uh and i i feel

922
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:28,320
i feel the way about dr masters that i

923
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:30,559
do regarding him being so unique

924
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,799
about his answers and his perspectives

925
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,320
and just want to go ahead

926
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,640
and cover this a little bit doctor uh

927
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:38,000
the last interview i had

928
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:41,600
with you about uh uh being a hunter

929
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:44,320
and coming across aliens and you're just

930
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,120
so having

931
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,080
a happen to have a weapon on you which

932
00:33:51,509 --> 00:33:49,840
as a hunter naturally you would

933
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,519
i wanted to bring up a question i

934
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,200
brought up up to you and let our

935
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,200
listeners know what your answer was

936
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:58,000
just so they can understand how unique

937
00:34:05,110 --> 00:33:58,320
you

938
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,120
the ufo topic at times so

939
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,600
our last interview i asked you if you

940
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,520
secretly spy an et presence abducting

941
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:10,720
people what do you do

942
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,879
do you run go protect your family do you

943
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:15,280
strategize to help those being abducted

944
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,359
perhaps you have a different answer so i

945
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:19,599
basically had a really loaded leading

946
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,079
question

947
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:22,480
there for you in different ways and you

948
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:24,320
completely sidestepped it

949
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:27,440
and what you said was i would consider

950
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,119
actually helping the et's

951
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:33,679
with their science project essentially

952
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,040
isn't that correct doctor

953
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:37,040
yeah i remember that actually very well

954
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:39,119
um yeah i said i would go help them and

955
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,599
you said

956
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,839
oh you would go help the people being

957
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:43,599
abducted i said no i would go help

958
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,000
the people doing the abducting i would

959
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:48,159
want to be a part of that research

960
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,040
mission and and be a part of what what i

961
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:53,200
think are probably anthropologists from

962
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:54,399
the future

963
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:57,280
biologists medical professionals

964
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:58,480
studying

965
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,160
aspects of our past physiology and and

966
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,720
any number of things about us so yeah it

967
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,640
wasn't necessarily a side step i

968
00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:08,160
wouldn't say but

969
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,359
definitely uh an answer that

970
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:14,079
probably isn't all that common to that

971
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,800
question

972
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:17,040
right you're accurate 100 thank you for

973
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,560
correcting me on that doctor

974
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:21,119
i wanted to uh bring up the topic of

975
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,960
hypnotic regression channeling and

976
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,079
remote viewing

977
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:27,119
regarding the et topic uh we hear about

978
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,400
these topics a lot

979
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:30,640
hypnotic regression channeling and

980
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:31,680
remote viewing

981
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:34,960
what are your thoughts on those topics

982
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:37,200
i i think it's going to be the next big

983
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:38,320
area

984
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:41,839
of scientific research unfortunately

985
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:45,920
it as with studies of um

986
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:49,520
the ufo phenomenon cryptozoology and

987
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:52,240
and things that are considered to be on

988
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:53,440
the fringe

989
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,800
there's still a lot of stigma

990
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:56,320
surrounding that and there's certainly a

991
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:57,680
lot of stigma

992
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,960
around remote viewing and but

993
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:03,280
but honestly like i said just a little

994
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,320
bit ago

995
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:07,119
if if consciousness isn't bound by the

996
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:09,119
same rules that govern

997
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,160
physical entities things with mass

998
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:14,240
essentially matter in the physical

999
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:15,760
universe then there really

1000
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:18,880
isn't any reason why

1001
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:22,560
consciousness couldn't um be used in

1002
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,359
that way why

1003
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:25,760
why we couldn't it's going to be a while

1004
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,560
i think before we really figure out how

1005
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:30,720
to do it in a meaningful way people

1006
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,320
claim that they're able to do remote

1007
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:34,400
viewing i think the cia even had

1008
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:36,960
a program where they were trying to use

1009
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:37,440
that

1010
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:40,160
as a form of spying i could be wrong

1011
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:41,680
about that it's not

1012
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:44,960
my main research focus but i do remember

1013
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,440
seeing something about that um but i

1014
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:50,400
just i also don't think our brains

1015
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,160
really have the capacity or

1016
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:57,280
the the ability to do that

1017
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,480
in the way some people claim

1018
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,119
to be able to with that said i i

1019
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,320
certainly

1020
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,560
think that that they're telling the

1021
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:08,079
truth that there is

1022
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:11,119
an early stage ability for the brain to

1023
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:12,160
do these things

1024
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,520
um telepathy and and just

1025
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,680
connecting with people on an energetic

1026
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:18,880
level and

1027
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:21,520
in a way that really is just rooted in

1028
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:22,800
consciousness and

1029
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,160
the energy that people exchange um

1030
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:28,880
if it seems like over time that'll

1031
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,760
probably

1032
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,599
become more developed and we could be in

1033
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:33,520
the early stages of that but it's it's

1034
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:35,200
gonna take for it to be science for it

1035
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:37,040
to be scientifically

1036
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:40,000
falsifiable and testable i think it's

1037
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:40,720
going to take

1038
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:44,480
some some development of equipment

1039
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:47,680
that doesn't exist yet technologies ways

1040
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:48,800
to really

1041
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:51,920
study the brain and the energy

1042
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,359
associated with the brain

1043
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:55,119
and and really understand consciousness

1044
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,640
i don't think we fully understand

1045
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,720
consciousness yet but i think

1046
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,480
i think in the future that'll be a

1047
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:02,400
really interesting area of study and

1048
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:06,480
and if i continue to investigate fringe

1049
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,440
science

1050
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,920
i guess that's something i would like to

1051
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:10,480
get into

1052
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,280
more i find it fascinating and um and i

1053
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:15,280
think there's probably a way

1054
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,920
to create testable hypotheses centered

1055
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:18,960
around

1056
00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:21,280
uh hypnotic regression and remote

1057
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:23,119
viewing and

1058
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:25,200
i i think i think it would be a really

1059
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,160
cool thing to study

1060
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,800
going forward uh yeah i think what you

1061
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:30,400
were referring to as

1062
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:33,920
the m culture project in mk ultra

1063
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:37,280
um yeah that was it right and uh

1064
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:40,720
that was a cia mind control program

1065
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:44,240
which encompassed so many tragic events

1066
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:47,599
in human history that were at times

1067
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,480
illegal and um i would say the entire

1068
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:52,320
project was highly immoral

1069
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,599
um yeah i just also want to mention

1070
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:57,359
to our viewers just something

1071
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:58,800
interesting and that is

1072
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:01,760
i think it was 1980 a media outlet by

1073
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:02,480
the name of

1074
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,400
the fifth estate was able to reveal

1075
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:09,599
part of that tragedy in canada um

1076
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:12,640
okay doctor i wanted to uh

1077
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:16,400
ask you um a little bit more

1078
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,240
about the et topic but before i do that

1079
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:21,839
i wanted to ask you

1080
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:25,200
um do you plan it's just sort of a

1081
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:25,839
surprise

1082
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:28,960
question do you plan on having another

1083
00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:31,680
book in the future

1084
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:36,079
um am i allowed to expand upon whether

1085
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:37,760
or not there will be a revised version

1086
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:43,280
of this yeah well i wasn't sure you told

1087
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:43,520
me

1088
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:45,440
it was a yes or no question so i didn't

1089
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,839
want to right violate any rules

1090
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,839
stay with the parameters of that no no

1091
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:50,960
no please okay

1092
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:53,520
let us know um no one thing that's been

1093
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:54,400
really cool

1094
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,040
about the last uh couple months i mean

1095
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:59,119
the books that i published it

1096
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:00,880
just over a month ago but i've been

1097
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:03,040
talking about this for a while and

1098
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,920
um one thing that's been really uh

1099
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:06,800
interesting

1100
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:10,079
is is hearing from people who know

1101
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:13,119
more about specific things that are

1102
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,480
discussed in the book than i do and and

1103
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,800
i mean i'm combining multiple different

1104
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,119
scientific disciplines to do this i'm

1105
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:22,880
obviously an anthropologist so i have a

1106
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:23,599
deeper

1107
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:26,319
knowledge of that particular field and

1108
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,440
the book

1109
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:29,680
centers more on anthropological research

1110
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:31,280
because of that and i think it's

1111
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,640
the most relevant to really

1112
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:35,040
understanding this extra tempestuo

1113
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:35,839
hypothesis

1114
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:39,280
but i've been getting

1115
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:42,400
emails from people who are

1116
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:45,359
former intelligence agents uh people

1117
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:46,640
numerous people that worked at los

1118
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,880
alamos research center

1119
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,880
physicists and and they've they've been

1120
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:54,640
filling in some gaps for me little

1121
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:56,000
pieces of the puzzle

1122
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,520
that i just didn't really have the

1123
00:41:02,550 --> 00:40:59,920
ability to put in place yet when i

1124
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:02,560
published the book in and it's been

1125
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:03,760
really fun

1126
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:07,920
to get this information from people who

1127
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:09,839
understand this model well enough and

1128
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:11,440
the way i explain it in the book to be

1129
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,560
able to notice

1130
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,160
that there's something that i just

1131
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:16,480
hadn't quite fully grasped and then

1132
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:17,200
though

1133
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,800
they've been filling me in on these

1134
00:41:22,829 --> 00:41:20,560
things and it's been awesome and

1135
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:22,839
and i don't have any sort of

1136
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,160
narcissistic

1137
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,800
ideas of having the perfect product here

1138
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:28,319
i've always referred to it as an

1139
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,119
evolving

1140
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,160
project because things like that i just

1141
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,079
can't know we can't know as a human

1142
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:36,560
race at this particular point in time so

1143
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,839
i've been really that's an interesting

1144
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:40,560
choice of words narcissistic

1145
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,480
yeah i mean it's easy for researchers to

1146
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:44,240
think they have everything figured out

1147
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,760
and that they're great and

1148
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:47,760
i i know everything and see everything

1149
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:49,119
but that's not the case and that's not

1150
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,400
what science is

1151
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,400
we're constantly just evolving our

1152
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,599
models

1153
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:55,440
with new information as it becomes

1154
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:56,640
available so

1155
00:42:03,030 --> 00:41:59,760
in in getting this new information and

1156
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:03,040
i've started keeping a folder where

1157
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,160
i put these i kind of

1158
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,480
write them out in my own words or just

1159
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,000
copy and paste what people

1160
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,240
said and i i think it would be great to

1161
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:14,560
update the book at some point with

1162
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:16,960
this knowledge and possibly bring these

1163
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,839
people in if

1164
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:20,240
if they're able to or willing to talk

1165
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,760
about them in their own words i think

1166
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:23,839
that would be a great way to revise the

1167
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,720
book but

1168
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:27,280
but no um to answer your your original

1169
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:28,400
question

1170
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,599
yeah i'm not a huge fan of writing

1171
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:34,160
which which is funny as to say as an

1172
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:34,720
author

1173
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,079
um i really like discussing things and

1174
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:40,319
and digging deeply into things in the

1175
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:42,800
research aspects of it especially

1176
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:45,040
in researching time and the physics of

1177
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,400
time that was

1178
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:49,119
a really fun part of writing this book i

1179
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:50,800
would leave my office many days and just

1180
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,440
have

1181
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,359
it feel like i wasn't even a part of

1182
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:55,520
this reality at times because

1183
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:58,000
you get exposed to these ideas that

1184
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:59,359
really challenge you

1185
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:01,119
to think about things in such different

1186
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:03,040
ways that it takes you out of

1187
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,480
space time completely i think that's

1188
00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:06,319
what people like about reading and going

1189
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,560
to the movies and things too is that it

1190
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,280
it for a moment you can leave your own

1191
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:12,800
reality and go into

1192
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:15,920
this other reality i've recently maybe a

1193
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:17,520
surprise to people but i never really

1194
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:18,960
liked science fiction

1195
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:21,280
until recently and i've just been

1196
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,400
getting into it and

1197
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:24,240
really enjoyed that part of it where you

1198
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:25,680
can go on these

1199
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,640
little brain adventures with whoever

1200
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:30,960
wrote the story and the producers and

1201
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:32,319
everybody so

1202
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:35,520
um i think that part of writing the book

1203
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:36,560
was a lot of fun

1204
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:38,480
and i would enjoy doing that and

1205
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:39,599
researching

1206
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,640
something else as as deeply as i had

1207
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:44,400
researched this over the last seven

1208
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,520
years

1209
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:47,680
but i don't have any plans in the near

1210
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:50,079
future to really jump back into that

1211
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:52,079
at the present time anyway well thank

1212
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:53,440
you for answering that question

1213
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,880
thank you for going into detail

1214
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:57,359
regarding all that was fascinating to

1215
00:44:02,309 --> 00:43:59,680
hear from you and also i think frank my

1216
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:02,319
co-host has a few questions of his own

1217
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,000
for you i do and i know that we had a

1218
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:08,319
brief conversation over at the facebook

1219
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,040
group

1220
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,560
resulting from a an article i think that

1221
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:13,920
was in the atlantic

1222
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,000
regarding scientific journal articles

1223
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:20,400
and our published papers becoming as

1224
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:22,000
somewhat of an anachronism

1225
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,560
you kind of jumped in there and had some

1226
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,640
comments about the journalistic

1227
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:29,200
or excuse me about the scientific

1228
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,119
journal industry in general

1229
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:32,800
and i was wondering if you wanted to

1230
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:34,079
expand on that because i thought your

1231
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:36,800
comments were really interesting

1232
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,000
yeah i remember um i remember that

1233
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,240
i don't remember exactly what i said but

1234
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:44,400
i'm sure my views haven't really changed

1235
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,760
that much yeah you didn't like it i

1236
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:47,040
remember that much i thought that was

1237
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:47,599
interesting

1238
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,520
so i've talked to a few they really want

1239
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:51,200
to get published bad and

1240
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,960
you're you're you seem to have an

1241
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,880
outlier opinion on it so i want to hear

1242
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:55,920
all about it

1243
00:45:03,030 --> 00:44:59,440
well mostly what my qualm is with

1244
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:03,040
the journal industry is that we as

1245
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:06,079
researchers work our butts off

1246
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:08,000
i don't know what the fcc rules are for

1247
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:10,319
the show but i'll still keep it pg

1248
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,680
um work our butts off to conduct

1249
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:15,680
these studies and we do research and we

1250
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,119
research we receive

1251
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:19,200
grants for these oftentimes not in all

1252
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:20,400
cases but

1253
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,240
so there is a little bit of money coming

1254
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:24,560
in the institutions we work for

1255
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:26,720
get a big percentage of that but some of

1256
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:28,319
it does come back to us

1257
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:32,240
um but but when we publish we

1258
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:35,680
are submitting this work

1259
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:38,000
oftentimes years and years of work to

1260
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:39,440
these journals

1261
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,640
and they take that material that we have

1262
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,160
provided them

1263
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:47,040
they take ownership of it they publish

1264
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,680
it they make

1265
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:49,839
millions and millions of dollars off of

1266
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:51,680
it and we get zero

1267
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:54,880
income from that and it's it's

1268
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:57,520
not just the research but also they have

1269
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,000
us

1270
00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:00,400
as peer reviewers there was a period of

1271
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:01,520
time

1272
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:05,440
when i was publishing a lot of papers

1273
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:08,160
and i sort of became some sort of

1274
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,599
international expert

1275
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,720
on the evolution of our mid facial

1276
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,200
anatomy and the eyes and the orbits

1277
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,880
specifically in the interaction of the

1278
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:18,480
frontal lobe

1279
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:21,839
and so i was getting requests to review

1280
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:24,000
papers that have been submitted to

1281
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:26,560
journals within that specific area of

1282
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,440
science

1283
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:30,000
almost weekly uh there were times when i

1284
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:31,920
was reviewing three or four papers at a

1285
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,640
time

1286
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,319
and it requires a lot of work to read

1287
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:36,160
those papers than to write

1288
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,760
or our response to it our actual review

1289
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,240
that then gets sent back to the

1290
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,720
the the original author the researchers

1291
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:46,480
sometimes they'll revise it we have to

1292
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:46,880
read

1293
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,359
those parts again and we get paid zero

1294
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:50,880
dollars for that

1295
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:53,680
you get no income from providing this

1296
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:55,280
very valuable service that these

1297
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,000
journals

1298
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:58,319
rely on they need us to do that but they

1299
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:59,440
don't compensate

1300
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:02,400
us for it and and i feel that that the

1301
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:04,160
way in which researchers are

1302
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:07,359
manipulated by these huge

1303
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:10,240
journals that are making millions if not

1304
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,520
billions of dollars

1305
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:13,680
off of selling our products and our hard

1306
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,119
work and our research

1307
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:17,280
is really a flaw in the system and i

1308
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,560
believe um

1309
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:20,559
the university of california system i

1310
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,839
don't know the details i should have

1311
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:22,880
looked this up

1312
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:24,960
but i believe they actually have been

1313
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:26,240
boycotting

1314
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:29,920
certain uh journals some of the largest

1315
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:30,480
ones

1316
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:32,960
because of this discrepancy in the way

1317
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:33,520
that

1318
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:37,440
know what the actual numbers are but

1319
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,880
it's got to be tens of millions of

1320
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,800
dollars that they'd be losing

1321
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,720
by not being included in the university

1322
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,559
of california system and all of the

1323
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:46,559
different schools that make up the uc

1324
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,200
system

1325
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,760
but i think it's going to take that for

1326
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:51,280
the industry to change i think it's

1327
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:52,640
going to take

1328
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:55,040
institutions standing up and researchers

1329
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:56,400
standing up and saying

1330
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:58,640
you know we'd like a share of the

1331
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,520
profits here

1332
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,359
because we don't get paid a lot to start

1333
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:03,200
with people think that professors make a

1334
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:04,319
lot of money but

1335
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:07,760
we actually don't um and in fact

1336
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,319
many professors especially ones that

1337
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,640
teach engineering and material sciences

1338
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:14,000
and things like that could make a lot

1339
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:15,040
more money

1340
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:18,480
in private industry than they could in

1341
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,000
the education system the higher

1342
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:21,839
education system so

1343
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:24,960
if there was fair compensation

1344
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:28,240
by these journals for the work that we

1345
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:29,040
do

1346
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,079
i think it would it would help

1347
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:34,800
bolster research i think it would help

1348
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,760
really

1349
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,440
change the system in a way that's

1350
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:39,200
mutually beneficial even though they

1351
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:40,559
would be losing a little bit of

1352
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,359
profit and their shareholders may not be

1353
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:45,040
entirely happy about that i think it's

1354
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:46,319
only equitable

1355
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:49,119
and it needs to happen in my opinion i

1356
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:50,960
i'm not the only one that's jaded

1357
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,390
oh yeah doctor i'm sorry i was just

1358
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:57,920
totally listening to you involved

1359
00:49:02,069 --> 00:49:00,160
with what you were saying it was a bit

1360
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:02,079
of a tangent

1361
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,760
i could see if you spaced out there at

1362
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:05,599
some point because it was a bit of a

1363
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,480
tangent

1364
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,559
it bothers me i don't like it but it's

1365
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:10,079
interesting to me because i do look at

1366
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:10,800
papers

1367
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:13,760
once in a while now and again and

1368
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,920
usually i can get through the abstracts

1369
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:18,240
relatively unscathed you know

1370
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:19,760
one of the things i really like about

1371
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:22,319
your site is how often you do

1372
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:25,680
uh reference actual published research

1373
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:27,200
peer-reviewed research i think that's

1374
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:27,599
great

1375
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:36,069
yeah appreciate that yeah uh sometimes

1376
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:36,720
you know

1377
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:39,440
these papers will get picked up by media

1378
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,839
and

1379
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,760
sometimes they'll be accurate in terms

1380
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,760
of recounting the contents of the paper

1381
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:46,079
and sometimes they won't i think it's

1382
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:47,760
always best to go back to the original

1383
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:49,520
source whenever possible

1384
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,400
and sometimes uh sometimes the papers

1385
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:54,000
are interesting to read like i said

1386
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,760
i can get through some of them by pretty

1387
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:57,040
unscared so

1388
00:50:01,109 --> 00:50:00,000
uh it's something that uh maybe you're

1389
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:01,119
not going to understand

1390
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:04,480
everything in a paper but you know what

1391
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:06,400
stretch yourself a little bit yeah and

1392
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:08,240
it's good you know google some words

1393
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,280
learn something

1394
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:11,359
absolutely and and one thing i like too

1395
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,319
is that you'll

1396
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:15,119
add the the direct quote from it in one

1397
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:17,119
of the more poignant parts

1398
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:18,960
of an article and and you're right it's

1399
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:20,319
important to do that because

1400
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:24,160
things can get twisted so quickly and

1401
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:25,680
it's almost like a game of telephone

1402
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,040
i've watched this happen with my own

1403
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,200
research i've seen some articles in

1404
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:31,280
french recently i happen to speak french

1405
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,920
so i

1406
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:33,760
enjoy reading those and and the

1407
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,599
translations are usually very good and

1408
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,359
the ideas translate well

1409
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:39,520
but there's been some media outlets in

1410
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:41,440
the u.s

1411
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:44,160
and australia i've seen one in england

1412
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:44,800
as well

1413
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:47,920
where it's it's the same language but

1414
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:50,079
they they sort of twist some things

1415
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:51,119
around

1416
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,880
to the point where it's not even

1417
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:55,920
something i said or would have said

1418
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:58,240
one that bothers me is the word proof i

1419
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:59,200
i've never

1420
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:01,040
we don't use the word proof in science

1421
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,720
there's no such thing as proof

1422
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,800
there's evidence and there's statistical

1423
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:06,480
analyses and you can

1424
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:09,280
back things up and we have uh

1425
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:11,920
statistical tests to provide

1426
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,800
some indication of the validity of an

1427
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:16,800
idea or a relationship but there's no

1428
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,319
such thing as proof

1429
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,880
and i've seen that word used in

1430
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,400
reference to

1431
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,480
what i've been doing and it does kind of

1432
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:26,000
bother me because i would i would never

1433
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,800
ever

1434
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:29,200
use that word or claim to have any sort

1435
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:31,119
of proof of anything that's not

1436
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,760
it's not what we do so yeah i know i

1437
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:35,680
think it's great to always go back to

1438
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:36,640
the original

1439
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:40,000
source and and to use that in in science

1440
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:42,960
communication as much as possible

1441
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:46,400
um doctor wanted to bring up a topic

1442
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:50,079
that's sort of related to the academic

1443
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,119
journal issue you brought up and it's an

1444
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:56,160
article that was uh written not that

1445
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,400
long ago it's called the fallacy of open

1446
00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:00,160
access publication and i'll provide the

1447
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:01,680
link to our listeners

1448
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:04,800
for that in a moment but in this article

1449
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:07,520
it says publishers are getting rich on

1450
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:08,720
the backs

1451
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,680
of underfunded academic libraries and

1452
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:12,720
unpaid labor

1453
00:52:16,710 --> 00:52:15,359
of academics who serve as editors

1454
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:16,720
reviewers and authors

1455
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:20,480
in that system is unsustainable

1456
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,960
they're also saying open access

1457
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:24,720
regarding

1458
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:27,040
academic publications has turned out to

1459
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,079
be a misnomer

1460
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:29,839
it goes on to say of course free access

1461
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:31,119
to research findings

1462
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:33,920
is good for science and society however

1463
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:34,800
open access

1464
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,800
is clearly not freely open to the

1465
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:38,800
scholars who are required to pay

1466
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,760
exorbitant fees to publish their results

1467
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,680
often out of their own pockets how do

1468
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:45,119
you feel about all of that

1469
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:48,640
oh it's no sorry

1470
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,280
fcc no no we're on youtube we can you

1471
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,200
can square your head off

1472
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:55,520
it's it's definitely i won't

1473
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:57,200
drop an f-bomb in there but i would like

1474
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:58,800
to throw an f-bomb in it you can do that

1475
00:53:01,510 --> 00:53:00,720
too that's okay that's

1476
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,520
yeah there you go

1477
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:03,119
there you go all right that feels better

1478
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,559
i'm happy

1479
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,720
no that's yeah that's another thing a

1480
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:08,240
lot of people don't understand about

1481
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:09,119
open access

1482
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:12,079
is that you're not only given giving

1483
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,839
them this content

1484
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,520
again that you worked years on to

1485
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:17,440
publish but then yeah you have to pay

1486
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:18,880
for it they want

1487
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,440
the researcher to give them often times

1488
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:23,440
over a thousand dollars i've i've seen

1489
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,400
some as high as

1490
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:26,880
you know two twenty five hundred dollars

1491
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:27,440
to

1492
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:30,720
make your uh paper open access and

1493
00:53:34,950 --> 00:53:33,359
and so what normally happens is that the

1494
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,960
journal will take your research they

1495
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,319
claim ownership of it

1496
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:38,160
you're not even allowed to give people

1497
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:40,000
you're not allowed to distribute

1498
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:42,800
your work to people you can give them a

1499
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,520
preprint

1500
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,119
version of it if they're interested in

1501
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:47,920
your research but once it's a final

1502
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:51,280
uh copywritten printed article

1503
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,119
you no longer have the ability to share

1504
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:54,720
your own work with people they have to

1505
00:53:58,950 --> 00:53:56,720
go through that journal

1506
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:58,960
most institutions have access to them

1507
00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:00,319
it's they pay

1508
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,079
large sums of money to these journals

1509
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:04,160
for access through different

1510
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:08,319
means ebsco jstor isi others

1511
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,800
so if you want to bypass that and just

1512
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:12,720
give people open access

1513
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:15,520
then the financial burden falls on the

1514
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:17,359
researchers themselves and they have to

1515
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,400
pay money

1516
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:20,880
to these journals to allow other people

1517
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,720
to be able to freely access it and in

1518
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,960
some cases yeah it's not entirely open

1519
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:26,559
it's not entirely free

1520
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:28,960
and it's it's a another flaw in the

1521
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,040
system i mean i could go on for hours

1522
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:33,280
about not just that but but the whole

1523
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:34,160
process of

1524
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:37,040
of graduate school and how tas are

1525
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:38,400
treated and

1526
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:41,440
um union busting among tas

1527
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:44,240
who demand when i first started teaching

1528
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,839
uh you know we're all lucky to have that

1529
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:47,760
position and i'm very thankful

1530
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:50,240
for the opportunities i was given as a

1531
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:51,680
teaching assistant and research

1532
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:52,880
assistant but

1533
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,880
it's barely enough to live i think i was

1534
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:55,920
making 800

1535
00:55:01,589 --> 00:54:59,359
a month when i first started teaching

1536
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,599
classes in order to be able to buy a

1537
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:03,599
house when i graduated from graduate

1538
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,880
school i was teaching five

1539
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:07,200
classes at one time at three different

1540
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:08,640
institutions

1541
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,119
and it was barely enough to save up for

1542
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,520
a down payment on a house once i finally

1543
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:15,200
was able to get out of grad school and

1544
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:16,559
move um so

1545
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:19,040
so there's there's pay discrepancies

1546
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,480
we're the ones that do most of the

1547
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:22,319
teaching at large institutions

1548
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:25,200
in entry-level classes anytime it's a

1549
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:26,079
101

1550
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,280
often times 200 level as well it's going

1551
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,280
to be a graduate student teaching

1552
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:33,359
most of those classes and and the amount

1553
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,480
we get paid

1554
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:37,119
relative to those who are in tenure

1555
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,319
track positions

1556
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:41,520
is abysmal adjuncts as another problem

1557
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:44,000
uh the way they treat grad students as

1558
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:44,720
children

1559
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:46,480
i mean you have people that are in their

1560
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:48,000
40s and 50s who are going

1561
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,760
back to school to get degrees and they

1562
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,319
treat them like like five-year-olds

1563
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:54,559
and that's that's pretty ubiquitous

1564
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:56,720
throughout the universities there's just

1565
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:57,920
this sense of

1566
00:56:01,990 --> 00:56:00,480
dominance and superiority and i think

1567
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,000
it's another aspect of

1568
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,319
of academia that's unfortunate and could

1569
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,400
definitely stand to use some change

1570
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,880
in the same capacity as the uh the

1571
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:10,720
journal industry

1572
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:12,799
i'm bra i'm really glad you brought that

1573
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,880
up regarding increasing uh pressure to

1574
00:56:18,309 --> 00:56:16,640
publish uh

1575
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,319
well i'm not increasing pressure but the

1576
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:20,240
the pressure to publish and rightfully

1577
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:21,119
so

1578
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,760
uh it's a it's natural want and desire

1579
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:26,000
for scholars who want to publish their

1580
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:28,559
uh blood sweat and tears uh but at the

1581
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:29,599
same time

1582
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:32,799
there is that publish or perish syndrome

1583
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:33,839
happening

1584
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,920
uh where there are the as you just

1585
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:36,960
mentioned

1586
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:39,839
so well the exploding costs of

1587
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:40,960
publishing

1588
00:56:44,069 --> 00:56:43,520
so doctor what about that issue

1589
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:44,079
regarding

1590
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:47,200
publish or parish do scholars go ahead

1591
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:48,720
and fall victim

1592
00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:52,559
and not necessarily willingly

1593
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,079
but do they fall victim to the

1594
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:56,240
increasing cost of publishing

1595
00:57:03,030 --> 00:56:59,760
and the idiocracy behind it or do they

1596
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:03,040
perish and not publish at all

1597
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:05,440
well there aren't really costs to

1598
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:08,240
publishing if you use the standard

1599
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:10,960
model of submitting papers to journals

1600
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:12,319
and peer review and

1601
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,880
all of that works fine they they make

1602
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:16,160
money we don't

1603
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,640
the the only cost would come from open

1604
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:20,480
access publication and the fees

1605
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,400
associated with that which isn't

1606
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,720
it isn't a huge part of the industry yet

1607
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:26,400
i think okay i think it should be

1608
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:28,720
i think it's important to have other

1609
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:29,680
people

1610
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:31,599
be able to have access to research

1611
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:32,960
without having

1612
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:35,359
to go through the paywall that exists

1613
00:57:38,309 --> 00:57:36,480
especially in

1614
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:38,319
large journals like nature and science

1615
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:39,680
where a lot of really interesting

1616
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,160
research

1617
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:43,280
is published it would be great if that

1618
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:44,160
was

1619
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:46,799
more open access actually some

1620
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:48,319
researchers just recently

1621
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:51,920
challenged that in anthropology they

1622
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:53,599
specifically lee berger at the

1623
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,520
university of its spotters ran in south

1624
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:57,440
africa where i did some of my own

1625
00:58:00,390 --> 00:57:58,319
research and

1626
00:58:02,230 --> 00:58:00,400
not far from where i did a couple digs

1627
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:02,240
over the summer

1628
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:05,760
they found these new hominin

1629
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:09,280
remains designated them homo naledi

1630
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,040
and they changed the whole model

1631
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:15,680
it used to be that when we would find

1632
00:58:18,789 --> 00:58:17,200
new hominins we would

1633
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:18,799
the researchers would sit on them

1634
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:20,640
protect them kind of keep them as

1635
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,000
my little precious and guard them for

1636
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:26,799
oftentimes a decade or five ten years

1637
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:27,599
sometimes

1638
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:30,079
and then publish their results in nature

1639
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:31,599
science and

1640
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:33,680
and then let people come and look at the

1641
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:35,520
actual bones and then a big debate would

1642
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:36,640
happen you know are these

1643
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:38,960
a new species or whatever so these guys

1644
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,960
actually did it

1645
00:58:44,789 --> 00:58:43,040
not guys as in men but men and women

1646
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:44,799
involved in this research

1647
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:48,240
they uh didn't sit on them for the same

1648
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:49,520
period of time they actually got

1649
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,640
a big team together and analyzed them

1650
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:54,240
designated them new species

1651
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:56,559
and then published in open access

1652
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,520
journals

1653
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:59,280
all of their results and it went

1654
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:00,640
completely against

1655
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:03,440
what had been the the way this was done

1656
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:04,880
in paleoanthropology

1657
00:59:09,390 --> 00:59:07,680
for decades and it challenged this sort

1658
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,400
of good old boy

1659
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:11,599
paleontological model and i see that as

1660
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,240
good any

1661
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,160
anything disruptive that disrupts an

1662
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:16,480
industry that's in need of disruption

1663
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:17,920
i see as a good thing they got a lot of

1664
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,400
backlash for it but i think that was

1665
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:22,960
the beginning of of a building movement

1666
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:23,760
to start

1667
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,040
challenging this model that

1668
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:29,520
isn't really fair to researchers so i'm

1669
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,920
glad to hear that there's other

1670
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,440
there's people writing about it there's

1671
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,599
other people challenging it

1672
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:37,359
to get back to your specific question of

1673
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:39,040
publisher parish that that's just an

1674
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:41,280
aspect of this job

1675
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:44,559
i don't necessarily see it as bad it

1676
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:47,200
it motivates us to continue doing

1677
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:48,000
research

1678
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:49,839
and i think that's a good thing like i

1679
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,000
said i'm not a huge fan of writing

1680
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,079
scientific writing especially can be

1681
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:56,240
very boring but it's also important we

1682
01:00:01,589 --> 00:59:57,599
need to be able

1683
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:01,599
to push science forward and often times

1684
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:03,680
the the best way to motivate yourself to

1685
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:05,280
do that is know that you have to crank

1686
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:06,640
out so many papers

1687
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:09,680
and so much time not just to keep your

1688
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:11,520
job but to get promoted to work your way

1689
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:12,079
up through

1690
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:14,559
a tenure track position so so yeah

1691
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:15,440
publisher pair

1692
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:18,000
sounds horrible and it is when you're

1693
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:18,720
feeling

1694
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:20,799
the burdens of it but it's also i think

1695
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:22,240
somewhat healthy

1696
01:00:27,910 --> 01:00:25,760
for the process um and for

1697
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,920
our advancement of science in general

1698
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:30,079
yes thank you for talking about that

1699
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:31,680
um in the chat room there was a

1700
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:33,920
collective um

1701
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:36,640
clapping and laughing at the f-bomb they

1702
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:38,720
all love that you did that by the way

1703
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:40,480
i don't know just so you can you and i

1704
01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,789
well i guess you touched a nerve if

1705
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:48,559
you're if you're getting me to drop

1706
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:50,400
f-bombs on your show because it's not

1707
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:52,319
something i usually try to do but

1708
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:54,640
but it does bother me it irks me that

1709
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:55,359
well

1710
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,960
not just that this system exists in the

1711
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:58,160
way it does but there's so much

1712
01:01:01,349 --> 01:00:59,359
complacency

1713
01:01:03,510 --> 01:01:01,359
surrounding it that everybody just falls

1714
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:03,520
into place and we just march blindly

1715
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:04,559
forward

1716
01:01:08,789 --> 01:01:06,720
at the beat of this journalistic drum i

1717
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:08,799
think i think we need a challenge to

1718
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,000
this system and and

1719
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:12,559
i'm glad i'm not the only one that's

1720
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:13,920
outspoken about it

1721
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:16,160
well a little anarchy in that area can't

1722
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:17,040
be that bad

1723
01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:19,200
i wanted to bring up a question that one

1724
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:21,839
of our loyal listeners who i love

1725
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:25,200
hearing from uh just like everybody

1726
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:28,319
who follows our our interviews

1727
01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,599
michael boyle he asks one of my favorite

1728
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:33,359
questions and that is

1729
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,839
he wants to know your thoughts on how

1730
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:37,200
capitalism

1731
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:41,200
economics academia the sciences and

1732
01:01:45,150 --> 01:01:42,319
let's throw in their

1733
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:45,160
medicine too would change

1734
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:50,390
yeah that's a really interesting

1735
01:01:57,349 --> 01:01:53,280
question um

1736
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,359
one of one of the biggest time travel

1737
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:59,200
paradoxes i hate that word but one of

1738
01:02:04,069 --> 01:02:00,720
the things you see most in

1739
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:04,079
in tv and movies is somebody coming back

1740
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:06,079
from the future with knowledge

1741
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:09,359
about that future relating to stocks

1742
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:11,839
to sports teams sports betting things

1743
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:12,799
like that

1744
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:14,319
and they they use it for their own

1745
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:16,000
personal benefit and

1746
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:17,680
and if you if you really start to think

1747
01:02:21,029 --> 01:02:20,319
about connecting different points in

1748
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:21,039
time

1749
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:26,400
works linearly with us you know there's

1750
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:27,119
a

1751
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:45,599
try to touch

1752
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,960
on more of those things uh related to

1753
01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:50,880
the implications of intertemporal

1754
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:52,160
interaction i think that's actually the

1755
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:53,520
name of the chapter

1756
01:02:57,430 --> 01:02:55,839
um so so yeah what would happen what

1757
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,440
what about the medical

1758
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,839
community would we instantly be able to

1759
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:01,200
cure cancer

1760
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:03,280
if we figure that out in the future and

1761
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,640
there's contacts

1762
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,960
between members of the future and

1763
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,160
present

1764
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:10,079
um and they have that information would

1765
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:11,760
they share that with us would we be able

1766
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:13,680
to eradicate diseases or

1767
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:15,200
would we have new diseases would there

1768
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,160
be disease transmission

1769
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:20,400
from the past to the future or from the

1770
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:21,920
future to the past in the same way that

1771
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:23,039
there was with

1772
01:03:26,789 --> 01:03:24,880
previously separated groups in different

1773
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:26,799
parts of the world and primarily

1774
01:03:29,829 --> 01:03:28,160
in the americas where they hadn't

1775
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:29,839
co-evolved with these same zoonotic

1776
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,880
diseases so

1777
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:33,200
yeah it's interesting to think about our

1778
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:35,680
capitalistic system

1779
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:38,720
medicine society in general

1780
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:40,960
how we would view ourselves how we would

1781
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:41,760
view

1782
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:43,760
our future if we were getting glimpses

1783
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,359
of it because getting glimpses into the

1784
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:47,200
past we do that all the time but

1785
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:49,039
but what's going to happen once we start

1786
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:50,240
to be able to

1787
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:53,359
see things from the future

1788
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:55,599
and have an understanding of how they

1789
01:04:00,069 --> 01:03:57,440
may play out so

1790
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:00,079
yeah i think that's a a really amazing

1791
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:02,880
question and certainly something that

1792
01:04:07,109 --> 01:04:05,520
that would take a while to think about

1793
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:07,119
and and honestly a lot of people think

1794
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,599
about

1795
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:09,599
time travel in the context of physics

1796
01:04:13,910 --> 01:04:12,000
but there's a lot of logicians and and

1797
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:13,920
even anthropologists that are going to

1798
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:16,000
be need to be a part of this and

1799
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:17,119
and the same with the idea of

1800
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,359
extraterrestrial life that i cite

1801
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:22,240
a number of researchers anthropologists

1802
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:23,440
in the paper who

1803
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:26,319
uh publish something for nasa looking at

1804
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:28,400
what it might be like if we did

1805
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:31,039
contact extraterrestrial life again i

1806
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,520
don't

1807
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:33,839
think it would look anything like us but

1808
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:34,960
we would need to have an

1809
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:38,079
understanding of our own advancements

1810
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:39,520
and our own intellect

1811
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:42,000
in our own culture in order to be able

1812
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:42,640
to

1813
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:47,039
intelligence and their own culture and

1814
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:48,720
language so

1815
01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:51,440
in the same way that we have these ideas

1816
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,240
across

1817
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:54,240
space i think we would also need to

1818
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:56,000
start thinking about those things across

1819
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:58,160
time more and that brings in philosophy

1820
01:05:01,430 --> 01:05:00,079
and anthropology and psychology and

1821
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:01,440
sociology

1822
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:03,200
into the equation so i don't think it's

1823
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:04,640
just in the realm of physics and

1824
01:05:08,230 --> 01:05:05,920
shouldn't be thought of

1825
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:08,240
as just an aspect of something that

1826
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:09,760
physicists study i think to really

1827
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,200
understand time

1828
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:13,520
and the implications of cross-temporal

1829
01:05:17,589 --> 01:05:15,119
contact it's going to take

1830
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:17,599
a lot of people working in a lot of

1831
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,839
different areas of the sciences to

1832
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:21,839
to really get at some of those deeper

1833
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,599
questions doctor i have

1834
01:05:27,029 --> 01:05:25,760
kind of an irritating topic to bring up

1835
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:27,039
to you

1836
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:32,710
you mentioned and this is not my

1837
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,680
question by the way this is just a

1838
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:37,680
oddly enough a tiny part of it you

1839
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:39,839
mentioned how you don't really like

1840
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:41,680
talking about proof so much in the

1841
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:43,280
respect that you mentioned which i

1842
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:44,640
happen to agree with you on

1843
01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:47,280
and also how in science it's just not

1844
01:05:50,230 --> 01:05:48,160
really

1845
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:50,240
that's not something they they bring up

1846
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:51,599
in that manner

1847
01:05:56,309 --> 01:05:55,039
um but yeah sorry i did i want to jump

1848
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:56,319
in here there's the uh

1849
01:06:01,510 --> 01:06:00,000
sigma five standard okay different sigma

1850
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:01,520
standards i don't know if that applies

1851
01:06:08,390 --> 01:06:03,760
to anthropology but i know it does in

1852
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:08,400
the physical sciences uh well but uh

1853
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,520
is that that what you're talking about

1854
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:10,799
there are different levels of proof

1855
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,680
there's there's

1856
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:13,920
and you'll see what i'm talking about

1857
01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:15,520
but thank you for bringing that up frank

1858
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:17,680
that's going to be important i'm sure

1859
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:20,400
and that is uh how about i bring up my

1860
01:06:24,230 --> 01:06:22,000
question first that way i don't confuse

1861
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:24,240
the heck out of everybody

1862
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:26,960
i've come across folks where even when

1863
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:28,160
something is right in front of them

1864
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:30,000
they'll deny it exists

1865
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:33,280
now i can understand that but

1866
01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:37,359
what if michael et's

1867
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:40,400
land right in front of us on our front

1868
01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:40,799
lawn

1869
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:48,319
walk outside of that et ship

1870
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:51,359
and your neighbor goes nah they're not

1871
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:52,240
there

1872
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:54,319
but their explanation is you know like

1873
01:06:57,990 --> 01:06:55,440
that's not proof

1874
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:58,000
so to speak you know using that term

1875
01:07:02,549 --> 01:06:58,720
loosely

1876
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:02,559
that's not proof enough for them uh

1877
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:04,559
and they say well that's just a hologram

1878
01:07:08,230 --> 01:07:05,760
that the government

1879
01:07:09,589 --> 01:07:08,240
created just like uh by the way dr

1880
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:09,599
jacques ballet did say

1881
01:07:13,109 --> 01:07:12,160
on thinking aloud uh jeffrey mishlov's

1882
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:13,119
uh

1883
01:07:20,630 --> 01:07:17,520
something to the effect of

1884
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:20,640
uh there during the cuban missile crisis

1885
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:22,720
that uh he came across information that

1886
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:24,000
the u.s government

1887
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,000
was actually creating a hologram

1888
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:30,640
to make it look as though jesus christ

1889
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:32,640
was going to appear when he was not

1890
01:07:36,309 --> 01:07:36,000
now so the neighbor sees the et's land

1891
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:36,319
on

1892
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:40,319
you

1893
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:42,559
what kind of proof does somebody need in

1894
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:43,839
order to understand

1895
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:46,960
they are right there that's a pretty uh

1896
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:50,160
testable situation though you you have

1897
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:51,680
that e.t go up and smack them in the

1898
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:52,799
face

1899
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:55,200
and instantly prove that they are not a

1900
01:08:00,390 --> 01:07:56,880
hologram

1901
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:00,400
uh they feel a hand a

1902
01:08:04,390 --> 01:08:02,720
pentadactyl hand come slapping them

1903
01:08:05,549 --> 01:08:04,400
across the face they're gonna they're

1904
01:08:07,510 --> 01:08:05,559
gonna have to

1905
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:07,520
reconceptualize some things there pretty

1906
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:09,119
quick can we also

1907
01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:12,480
agree to agree that jacques fabrice

1908
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,119
ballet

1909
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:15,680
has by far the coolest name of any

1910
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:17,040
ufologist

1911
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:18,799
i really love his name it's so much fun

1912
01:08:21,749 --> 01:08:20,480
to say um

1913
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:21,759
yeah i know there's always going to be

1914
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,239
there's flat earthers for god's sakes um

1915
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:26,560
and i i don't care if i piss them off go

1916
01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:27,440
wash

1917
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:30,560
out now no the earth's not flat there i

1918
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:31,440
said it

1919
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:34,799
it's pretty easy to prove that um

1920
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,799
so no i actually don't have a lot of

1921
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:38,799
patience for

1922
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:42,400
people that that can take

1923
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:45,679
very simple understandable things

1924
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,239
and just try to manipulate them to

1925
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:50,080
conform to their own biases

1926
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:52,319
and and yeah this this is one that could

1927
01:08:57,110 --> 01:08:54,000
potentially be like that

1928
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:57,120
um it will take and unfortunately we

1929
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:58,640
don't yet have

1930
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:01,839
that um you know handshake between

1931
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,640
a prime minister and a future human we

1932
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:06,080
have a lot of

1933
01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:08,640
pictures and videos and and people in

1934
01:09:11,349 --> 01:09:10,640
this community know just how much is out

1935
01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:11,359
there

1936
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:15,520
certainly a number of those that are

1937
01:09:19,349 --> 01:09:16,480
hoaxes or

1938
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:19,359
weather balloons or a spacex rocket

1939
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:20,880
landing

1940
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:23,759
things get mistaken for these but even

1941
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:25,199
the government's admitted

1942
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:27,920
over countless decades that these things

1943
01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:29,839
are real they exist i think the navy

1944
01:09:34,630 --> 01:09:32,960
just reissued some i

1945
01:09:37,510 --> 01:09:34,640
never read the story i should have but

1946
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:37,520
some new classification scheme about

1947
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:39,279
ufos so there is acknowledgement and

1948
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:41,120
it's not conspiracy theory to say that

1949
01:09:43,829 --> 01:09:42,239
they've come out

1950
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:43,839
and published these documents or at

1951
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:45,120
least released them and other people

1952
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:46,400
have published them

1953
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:48,080
showing that there have been real

1954
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:51,040
investigations into this for a long time

1955
01:09:54,870 --> 01:09:53,839
which as i argue in the book is sort of

1956
01:09:56,709 --> 01:09:54,880
evidence for

1957
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:56,719
the reality of the situation why would

1958
01:10:02,149 --> 01:09:59,600
they have these programs for so long

1959
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:02,159
if there wasn't something going on that

1960
01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:04,159
needed investigating so i think

1961
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:06,400
yeah just to jump in here my own opinion

1962
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:08,400
on that story that came out in the last

1963
01:10:11,669 --> 01:10:09,520
week

1964
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:11,679
really sends a message i think well

1965
01:10:16,790 --> 01:10:13,920
obviously the ufo buffs like ourselves

1966
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:16,800
we're obviously very excited about that

1967
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:18,880
the news itself is probably a drop in

1968
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,400
the bucket so the general public

1969
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:22,080
is not going to care but the real

1970
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:23,440
audience for that i think

1971
01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:26,640
is navy personnel themselves right

1972
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,719
that message is loud and clear hey if

1973
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:30,560
you see something if you experience

1974
01:10:33,990 --> 01:10:31,440
something

1975
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:34,000
let us know and that was not always the

1976
01:10:36,390 --> 01:10:34,719
case uh

1977
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:36,400
yeah i could go on that infinitum of

1978
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:38,000
circumstances where that was not the

1979
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:38,960
case especially

1980
01:10:42,070 --> 01:10:41,440
uh regarding the deke slayton case but

1981
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:42,080
uh

1982
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:43,679
i i think it's good news but the sorry

1983
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:45,440
to interrupt with that no no i think

1984
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,400
that's important

1985
01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:48,400
uh to acknowledge and and yeah i'm sure

1986
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:50,480
they feel the same stigma

1987
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:53,360
that that we do in academia probably

1988
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:54,560
even worse because they're the ones on

1989
01:10:58,149 --> 01:10:56,080
the front lines they're the ones seeing

1990
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:58,159
these things much more often but

1991
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:00,719
if there's not open channels to discuss

1992
01:11:03,669 --> 01:11:02,159
it with your superiors

1993
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:03,679
and and there's stigma surrounding it

1994
01:11:07,510 --> 01:11:05,679
people just won't and i think they're

1995
01:11:08,709 --> 01:11:07,520
robbing themselves of a lot of valuable

1996
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:08,719
information

1997
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,960
uh regarding this phenomenon by closing

1998
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:12,640
those communication channels so yeah

1999
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,800
i think i think that's great that that

2000
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:16,640
is uh changing

2001
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:20,159
um the the sigma 5 thing the

2002
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:23,520
we we use

2003
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,920
most most of the quantitative research

2004
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:27,520
in

2005
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,880
test statistics it's we don't like i

2006
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:35,040
said we don't use the word proof because

2007
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:39,040
we have models that and statistical

2008
01:11:43,030 --> 01:11:40,000
analyses that

2009
01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:43,040
allow us to get a good sense of how

2010
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:45,520
accurate an interpretation is or how

2011
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:46,080
valid

2012
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:50,480
a model is and um we we use alpha errors

2013
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:54,159
p-values just standard

2014
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:57,600
metrics that allow us to test ideas

2015
01:12:01,110 --> 01:12:00,239
and to test hypotheses and and i think

2016
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:01,120
that's important

2017
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:04,239
and it needs to be a part of

2018
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:06,320
this conversation there there needs to

2019
01:12:09,430 --> 01:12:07,520
be

2020
01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:09,440
and i think a big part of this book and

2021
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:10,960
and the model presented in it

2022
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:13,199
and and why it's different is because it

2023
01:12:17,590 --> 01:12:14,480
is a testable model

2024
01:12:20,790 --> 01:12:17,600
it's it's a falsifiable

2025
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:20,800
uh explanation of falsifiable hypothesis

2026
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:22,239
related to this phenomenon

2027
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:25,199
and i think the more we get those sorts

2028
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:26,159
of things

2029
01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:29,280
relating to what have been considered

2030
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,560
fringe sciences in the past

2031
01:12:36,149 --> 01:12:34,080
the more we can start to break down the

2032
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:36,159
stigma in science in the same way that

2033
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:38,239
the the navy just did with these pilots

2034
01:12:41,189 --> 01:12:39,120
and allow

2035
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:41,199
for more open communication we need to

2036
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:42,560
be talking about these things there

2037
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,760
needs to be

2038
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:45,679
study of things we don't understand and

2039
01:12:51,110 --> 01:12:47,520
that's the role of scientists

2040
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,120
to do that it's our job to

2041
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:53,520
find ways to investigate things using

2042
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,960
the scientific method

2043
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:56,400
that can help push our understanding

2044
01:13:01,270 --> 01:12:58,560
forward that's how it's always been

2045
01:13:02,709 --> 01:13:01,280
unfortunately a lot of times things are

2046
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:02,719
ridiculed at first

2047
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:05,440
oftentimes violently opposed and then

2048
01:13:07,990 --> 01:13:06,880
after a period of time if someone was

2049
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:08,000
right about something

2050
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:10,480
it's just everybody jumps on board as if

2051
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:12,239
it was self-evident the whole time it

2052
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:12,880
was just an

2053
01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:16,560
obvious thing but they they disregard

2054
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:19,679
the struggle that was involved in

2055
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:20,400
getting

2056
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:23,280
this knowledge out there um so i think

2057
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:26,000
it's unfortunate and and hopefully

2058
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:28,640
this book and the conservative approach

2059
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,800
to investigating this phenomenon and the

2060
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:32,400
rigorous scientific

2061
01:13:38,229 --> 01:13:35,280
approach can can hopefully open some

2062
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:38,239
channels to future research and

2063
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:40,960
hopefully ones that aren't victimized by

2064
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:41,679
the stigma

2065
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:43,760
that's been long associated with it

2066
01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:44,960
doctor i wonder

2067
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:48,719
how closely ets would follow

2068
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:50,800
the model you just spoke of and frank

2069
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:51,840
brought up

2070
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:54,080
regarding science if or if it would be

2071
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:55,679
outdated

2072
01:14:02,229 --> 01:13:59,360
again according to the probability and

2073
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:02,239
possibility that ets are millions

2074
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:05,040
of years ahead of us technology wise i

2075
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:06,640
wonder what kind of scientific

2076
01:14:12,470 --> 01:14:10,239
model they use

2077
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,480
um i mean the the scientific method

2078
01:14:17,709 --> 01:14:14,159
itself is somewhat timeless

2079
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:17,719
it's a very basic structure for

2080
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:21,920
investigating things and a rigorous

2081
01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:24,400
method with which to do so so i would

2082
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:25,520
imagine that

2083
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:28,640
that's it's probably the same just

2084
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:31,760
they have a much longer period of time

2085
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:34,080
in which they could use it to understand

2086
01:14:38,229 --> 01:14:36,239
things in a way that we can't

2087
01:14:39,510 --> 01:14:38,239
um from our current position and time

2088
01:14:42,550 --> 01:14:39,520
but i would guess that

2089
01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:42,560
that the same process of constructing

2090
01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:44,239
hypotheses testable

2091
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:46,960
falsifiable repeatable hypotheses and

2092
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:48,239
and then going through

2093
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,710
the methods of collecting data and

2094
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:52,800
[Music]

2095
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:55,040
and testing through statistical means or

2096
01:14:57,910 --> 01:14:56,400
whatever it means i think that'll

2097
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:57,920
probably be the same

2098
01:15:01,830 --> 01:14:59,840
into the future as well i wanted to

2099
01:15:04,229 --> 01:15:01,840
bring up a topic uh that's

2100
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:04,239
uh near and dear to experiencers

2101
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:06,239
abductees and contactees

2102
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:07,600
and i'm going to ask you the same

2103
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:09,360
question but it's

2104
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:12,800
uh under the umbrella of that

2105
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,640
and that is uh and i'll be very fast on

2106
01:15:19,830 --> 01:15:18,320
this because i think it's probably time

2107
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:19,840
to wrap up the show

2108
01:15:24,950 --> 01:15:23,360
and that is uh abductees experiencers

2109
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:24,960
and contactees

2110
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:28,320
have reported seeing et's

2111
01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:30,400
but then some have reported that their

2112
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:31,760
mind could not

2113
01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:35,040
wrap itself around the fact that they

2114
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:35,920
were seeing

2115
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,040
an e.t or the evidence the fact or the

2116
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:41,600
evidence that they were seeing one

2117
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:44,640
so i wanted to know if a

2118
01:15:49,430 --> 01:15:48,480
person sees an e.t and they're having a

2119
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:49,440
hard time

2120
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:53,280
grappling with realizing they're in the

2121
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:55,520
presence of one

2122
01:15:59,189 --> 01:15:58,400
how do you feel the human mind deals

2123
01:16:01,030 --> 01:15:59,199
with that

2124
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:01,040
because some of these folks are scarred

2125
01:16:04,830 --> 01:16:03,679
for life and they're having a difficulty

2126
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:04,840
regarding that

2127
01:16:10,470 --> 01:16:08,320
yeah absolutely i mean anything that's

2128
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:10,480
that far removed from our conventional

2129
01:16:16,390 --> 01:16:12,719
sense of reality is going to be

2130
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:16,400
extremely difficult to process and um

2131
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:18,719
you know the whole phenomenon itself

2132
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:20,560
it's like imagine

2133
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:22,960
showing a cell phone to a denisovan or a

2134
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:23,920
neanderthal

2135
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:26,000
some 50 000 years ago and then asking

2136
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:28,000
them to explain what that is

2137
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,600
um it's much more than a phone these

2138
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:31,280
days it's a little handheld computer

2139
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:32,880
video camera etc

2140
01:16:37,750 --> 01:16:35,760
but there's just there's no way to to

2141
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:37,760
really conceptualize something that

2142
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:38,880
exists

2143
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:41,920
so far out from your point in time

2144
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:43,120
whether you're going back

2145
01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:46,000
or forward and then yes seeing these

2146
01:16:49,189 --> 01:16:46,640
beings

2147
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:49,199
and not understanding who they are what

2148
01:16:54,310 --> 01:16:49,840
they are

2149
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:54,320
can be a life-altering thing it can

2150
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:56,480
it can be very traumatic for people and

2151
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:58,159
another big part of writing this book

2152
01:17:01,750 --> 01:16:58,960
was to

2153
01:17:03,110 --> 01:17:01,760
try to offer some sort of understanding

2154
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:03,120
for people who have had these

2155
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:04,880
experiences and hopefully

2156
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:06,560
frame it in a context that's more

2157
01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:07,920
understandable

2158
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:11,040
and and offer some explanation

2159
01:17:15,830 --> 01:17:13,520
of not just who they are but possibly

2160
01:17:16,310 --> 01:17:15,840
why they were doing those things to them

2161
01:17:19,990 --> 01:17:16,320
and

2162
01:17:21,189 --> 01:17:20,000
that for people who have had that

2163
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:21,199
experience because a lot of

2164
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:24,400
the the the scary aspects of it are

2165
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:26,719
probably just not understanding

2166
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:29,600
who this is and why they're doing these

2167
01:17:33,030 --> 01:17:30,000
things

2168
01:17:34,070 --> 01:17:33,040
and um if if they they were to read the

2169
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:34,080
book and

2170
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:37,199
and see the evidence put forth

2171
01:17:40,550 --> 01:17:38,880
that they're really just us i think that

2172
01:17:41,030 --> 01:17:40,560
would take a lot of the fear out of it

2173
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:41,040
that

2174
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:44,560
within

2175
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:47,120
seemingly some aspects of the guidelines

2176
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:48,960
that we've set forth with regard to

2177
01:17:53,350 --> 01:17:50,719
research ethics

2178
01:17:53,830 --> 01:17:53,360
there are reports and cases that seem to

2179
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:53,840
go

2180
01:17:57,030 --> 01:17:56,000
outside of that but for the most part it

2181
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:57,040
seems to be

2182
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:01,199
a pretty non-invasive

2183
01:18:04,950 --> 01:18:02,960
sort of research where they're not

2184
01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:04,960
trying to scar people for life that is

2185
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:07,120
the outcome for most people because

2186
01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:08,880
there's just so much uncertainty around

2187
01:18:11,910 --> 01:18:10,800
it and fear associated with being drug

2188
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:11,920
out of bed in the middle of the night

2189
01:18:14,630 --> 01:18:12,560
and these

2190
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:14,640
big-eyed creatures standing over you

2191
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,640
doing weird things to you but

2192
01:18:20,950 --> 01:18:19,120
um yeah i don't know i think that's

2193
01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:20,960
that's a personal struggle

2194
01:18:25,270 --> 01:18:22,960
for a lot of people that can hopefully

2195
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:25,280
be made somewhat better by having

2196
01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:28,400
a more general understanding of what

2197
01:18:33,430 --> 01:18:31,440
that encounter actually was and why it

2198
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:33,440
may have happened to them

2199
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:36,000
i wanted to wrap up the show but before

2200
01:18:39,830 --> 01:18:37,840
i do wanted to ask frank if he had any

2201
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:39,840
last questions

2202
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:41,760
uh well basically yeah we want to uh

2203
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:43,600
plug the book of course

2204
01:18:47,830 --> 01:18:46,320
is it available now doctor it is yeah

2205
01:18:51,270 --> 01:18:47,840
it's available on amazon

2206
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:51,280
barnes and noble kobo there's also an

2207
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:54,159
audio book that's available on audible

2208
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:54,880
and

2209
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:58,159
itunes um it's starting to get into some

2210
01:19:04,149 --> 01:19:00,239
independent bookstores but for now it's

2211
01:19:09,910 --> 01:19:07,430
it was a nightmarish process

2212
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:09,920
i mean i i'm kind of fortunate i i've

2213
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:11,760
been in a band for five years and

2214
01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:15,120
we recorded an album a few years ago and

2215
01:19:20,229 --> 01:19:18,320
a lot of that we did ourselves with

2216
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:20,239
good equipment and software so i have

2217
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:21,840
some audio

2218
01:19:25,030 --> 01:19:23,840
recording and engineering skills but

2219
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,040
just the process of

2220
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:27,840
reading something every day for what

2221
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:28,159
took

2222
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:29,760
four months i probably read the whole

2223
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,480
book five times to be honest because

2224
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:34,400
just little pops and clicks that you

2225
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:36,159
hear in a good microphone

2226
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:38,480
people knocking on the door at random

2227
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:39,679
times

2228
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:41,280
so you didn't get it done in one take

2229
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:43,040
basically

2230
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:44,880
no but but it's been really well

2231
01:19:48,709 --> 01:19:46,880
received it's been a very popular

2232
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:48,719
version of this book and i think people

2233
01:19:53,350 --> 01:19:50,560
enjoy it too because there are

2234
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:53,360
like i try to explain everything even

2235
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:53,840
very

2236
01:19:57,590 --> 01:19:55,920
complex scientific things to be

2237
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:57,600
understandable to anyone

2238
01:20:00,550 --> 01:19:59,040
but there's still some big words in

2239
01:20:01,990 --> 01:20:00,560
there and i think people have enjoyed

2240
01:20:03,990 --> 01:20:02,000
the audiobook too because

2241
01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:04,000
those are said for them they don't have

2242
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:05,600
to kind of stumble through the

2243
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:07,360
pronunciation of a word like

2244
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:08,560
synapomorphy

2245
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:10,560
it's just said and then explained so

2246
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:12,080
it's it's been pretty

2247
01:20:15,669 --> 01:20:13,840
pretty popular for that and other

2248
01:20:17,430 --> 01:20:15,679
reasons but no it was a lot of fun too i

2249
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:17,440
shouldn't just trash the whole process

2250
01:20:20,470 --> 01:20:18,000
it was fun

2251
01:20:22,149 --> 01:20:20,480
to do it was just much more time

2252
01:20:22,790 --> 01:20:22,159
consuming than i ever thought it would

2253
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:22,800
be

2254
01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:26,080
well i think it is well chad i want to

2255
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,159
give the title of the book of course it

2256
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:30,719
is identified

2257
01:20:36,390 --> 01:20:34,080
flying objects a

2258
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:36,400
thing on a sec here i'm reading the uh

2259
01:20:40,709 --> 01:20:37,440
it's a long title

2260
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:40,719
a multi-disciplinary scientific approach

2261
01:20:45,030 --> 01:20:44,159
to the ufo phenomena doctor i appreciate

2262
01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:45,040
you coming back

2263
01:20:49,270 --> 01:20:46,960
again oh it's really great i love

2264
01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:49,280
talking to you guys that book by the way

2265
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:50,639
and by the way i just want to make a

2266
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:53,199
comment about your audiobook you should

2267
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:56,800
uh always any time you do an audio book

2268
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:00,480
doctor mention jacques fabrice vale

2269
01:21:06,149 --> 01:21:04,560
justice but anyway that's fun

2270
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:06,159
i used his full name in the book too i

2271
01:21:09,669 --> 01:21:07,760
may have even added a subtle french

2272
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:09,679
accent to it because it was fun for me

2273
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:10,560
that's wonderful

2274
01:21:13,990 --> 01:21:12,719
um wanted to say that your book came out

2275
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:14,000
friday april 22nd

2276
01:21:18,149 --> 01:21:16,159
he had a book signing at cilancha uh

2277
01:21:21,270 --> 01:21:18,159
butte uh slancha which is uh

2278
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,280
a uh what is that like a a cafe

2279
01:21:25,030 --> 01:21:23,760
or a book place in butte montana correct

2280
01:21:26,709 --> 01:21:25,040
no it's a pub

2281
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,719
it's a pub oh it's a poor house they've

2282
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:29,280
got lots of different

2283
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:31,760
beers from all over montana that's a

2284
01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:32,800
great place

2285
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:34,880
beer and ufos go together they do very

2286
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:36,560
well very well

2287
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:39,120
i wanted to also mention the website you

2288
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:40,960
have which is

2289
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:44,320
f l y o b j so that's

2290
01:21:51,030 --> 01:21:48,320
i d f l y obj.com i

2291
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:51,040
did put that in the chat room area and i

2292
01:21:55,830 --> 01:21:52,639
will also put it in the thread

2293
01:21:57,189 --> 01:21:55,840
underneath the interview and uh doctor

2294
01:21:59,270 --> 01:21:57,199
also i'm glad you mentioned that you're

2295
01:22:01,990 --> 01:21:59,280
a musician you're also a painter

2296
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:02,000
i did look at your art it's absolutely

2297
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:03,280
fantastic

2298
01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:06,080
i really appreciate your art and i do

2299
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:07,120
want to recommend

2300
01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:09,120
everybody please go to his website

2301
01:22:12,310 --> 01:22:10,320
please read his book

2302
01:22:14,070 --> 01:22:12,320
i identified flying objects

2303
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:14,080
multi-disciplinary approach to the

2304
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:16,400
ufo phenomenon and thank you very much

2305
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:18,000
for having been on our show today you've

2306
01:22:21,990 --> 01:22:19,199
been very generous

2307
01:22:24,070 --> 01:22:22,000
with your time thanks again i always

2308
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:24,080
enjoy talking you guys i enjoy the show

2309
01:22:28,470 --> 01:22:25,760
and uh it's been great thanks for having

2310
01:22:30,310 --> 01:22:28,480
me on absolutely

2311
01:22:34,629 --> 01:22:30,320
all right talk to you later bye now have

2312
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:37,910
and chant another successful show in the

2313
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,960
books

2314
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:40,400
and we've got quite a month of may

2315
01:22:45,669 --> 01:22:42,080
coming up

2316
01:22:48,310 --> 01:22:45,679
alejandra rojas on monday yes

2317
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:48,320
we've got a little project well we've

2318
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:48,960
also got

2319
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:50,880
at some point this month we don't have

2320
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:52,560
an exact date narrowed down

2321
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:55,440
quite yet our long-awaited avni super

2322
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,960
show where we'll have

2323
01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:58,800
maybe a handful of south american

2324
01:23:01,510 --> 01:23:00,480
researchers talking about the ufo

2325
01:23:04,550 --> 01:23:01,520
phenomenon

2326
01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:04,560
down in south america and

2327
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:08,000
we've also got andrew radzowitz

2328
01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:10,719
coming up razz uh my old pal he's uh

2329
01:23:16,310 --> 01:23:13,040
relocated down to australia

2330
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:16,320
and he's working with uh well i i can't

2331
01:23:19,350 --> 01:23:17,679
i don't think i can say i forget i

2332
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:19,360
forget what he told me i can

2333
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:21,280
talk about what he can't talk about but

2334
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:23,520
uh right he's he's working down there

2335
01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:25,040
and uh it's gonna be fun talking to him

2336
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:26,639
i haven't talked to him since he moved

2337
01:23:28,870 --> 01:23:28,000
he was still in new york the last time i

2338
01:23:31,110 --> 01:23:28,880
talked to him directly

2339
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:31,120
yeah i it's gonna be a lot of fun coast

2340
01:23:36,149 --> 01:23:32,400
accent by the way

2341
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:36,159
yeah i was shocked listening to him talk

2342
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:38,639
with that east coast accent while he's

2343
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:39,679
in australia

2344
01:23:43,590 --> 01:23:41,360
uh you know because you and i watched a

2345
01:23:45,990 --> 01:23:43,600
video together uh of him

2346
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:46,000
uh with a gentleman from australia it's

2347
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:47,520
just interesting listening to both of

2348
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:48,000
them talk

2349
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:50,159
at the same time the other person we

2350
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:51,600
have who's going to be absolutely

2351
01:23:57,430 --> 01:23:53,600
fascinating is calvin parker

2352
01:24:00,390 --> 01:23:57,440
and then we have a ufo mega

2353
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:00,400
panel special with it's a star-studded

2354
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:02,880
event that will be happening either

2355
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:05,120
next month or the month thereafter big

2356
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:06,800
names in ufology

2357
01:24:10,950 --> 01:24:09,760
regarding the topic of females and

2358
01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:10,960
ufology

2359
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:14,560
a very little known little talked about

2360
01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:15,360
topic

2361
01:24:20,070 --> 01:24:17,360
and when i say little known it's really

2362
01:24:22,550 --> 01:24:20,080
literally not talked about hardly at all

2363
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:22,560
but i did want to mention there's three

2364
01:24:27,510 --> 01:24:24,320
to 400 females i've

2365
01:24:28,870 --> 01:24:27,520
been able to identify and create and

2366
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:28,880
compile a list of

2367
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:31,280
who are actively doing hard work and

2368
01:24:35,590 --> 01:24:33,520
research in the topic of ufology

2369
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,600
we'll be talking about that and more

2370
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:36,960
during that show

2371
01:24:40,470 --> 01:24:38,960
yep we'll have that and i will just kick

2372
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:40,480
back and drink beer and watch the game

2373
01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:41,520
while you

2374
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:44,159
but you and the females talk about the

2375
01:24:47,669 --> 01:24:45,199
ufo stuff

2376
01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:47,679
you know but uh we've got that we've

2377
01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:48,639
also got

2378
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:50,719
that's not all we've got a big month uh

2379
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:53,120
planned and i think this is the key

2380
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:54,960
and i'm going to get to another show

2381
01:24:58,070 --> 01:24:56,560
that we're going to do that

2382
01:25:00,550 --> 01:24:58,080
i think that might be near and dear to

2383
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:00,560
your heart but we're also going to do

2384
01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:03,840
i'm working with someone uh on

2385
01:25:08,950 --> 01:25:06,880
a little bit of a remote viewing show

2386
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,960
where we might be doing some live well

2387
01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:10,080
we will be doing

2388
01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:11,920
i don't know if we'll talk about i think

2389
01:25:14,550 --> 01:25:14,000
we'll probably talk about the protocols

2390
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:14,560
uh

2391
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,920
that might be a little bit of a hit as

2392
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:17,679
to who this individual is we'll be

2393
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:19,360
talking a little bit about the protocols

2394
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:20,880
and how we can set this up

2395
01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:24,159
and do this live so nobody should

2396
01:25:29,189 --> 01:25:27,199
question the uh efficacy or the honesty

2397
01:25:31,669 --> 01:25:29,199
of the demonstrations and that we'll

2398
01:25:33,189 --> 01:25:31,679
we'll do that so that could be two shows

2399
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:33,199
but it will certainly be at least

2400
01:25:36,790 --> 01:25:36,080
one that's going to be a lot of fun and

2401
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:36,800
chant

2402
01:25:40,709 --> 01:25:39,360
i think we're going to have no choice

2403
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:40,719
and i'm going to talk about this a

2404
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:41,520
little bit

2405
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:43,600
uh not not too long i guess it's been

2406
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:45,040
what a month ago maybe a little bit

2407
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:45,760
longer now

2408
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:48,159
we had chase klutzky on our show yeah

2409
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:49,199
and uh chase

2410
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:51,920
uh has unfortunately for her attracted

2411
01:25:54,310 --> 01:25:53,280
some haters and the fact that we just

2412
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:54,320
had chase on

2413
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:56,239
and did an interview attracted some

2414
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:57,679
haters as well and

2415
01:26:02,310 --> 01:26:00,560
uh the most uh uh upfront about it uh

2416
01:26:03,430 --> 01:26:02,320
the loudest about it is someone named

2417
01:26:05,910 --> 01:26:03,440
erica luke's

2418
01:26:07,350 --> 01:26:05,920
and uh frankly uh we are going to uh

2419
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,360
deconstruct this uh

2420
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:09,840
toxic individual in my view the most

2421
01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:12,480
toxic individual in all of ufology

2422
01:26:15,910 --> 01:26:15,280
and uh we will we will uh it's not uh

2423
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:15,920
what i

2424
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:19,040
started the show to do uh to uh meyer in

2425
01:26:22,870 --> 01:26:20,000
the sewer

2426
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:22,880
but uh as uh she is uh apparently dug

2427
01:26:26,790 --> 01:26:25,040
deep into google and found my old mug

2428
01:26:28,550 --> 01:26:26,800
shot from 13 years ago

2429
01:26:30,629 --> 01:26:28,560
where i was actually charged with

2430
01:26:32,550 --> 01:26:30,639
assault uh something that was

2431
01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:32,560
thrown out at the preliminary hearing

2432
01:26:36,070 --> 01:26:34,400
level i might add because it became

2433
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:36,080
evident at the preliminary

2434
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:38,880
preliminary hearing level that all i was

2435
01:26:42,310 --> 01:26:40,320
doing was defending myself

2436
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:42,320
but i'm going to defend myself now i'm

2437
01:26:45,510 --> 01:26:44,000
going to defend my show i know chad

2438
01:26:46,790 --> 01:26:45,520
you're more than capable of doing it i'm

2439
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:46,800
sure you're going to jump in and do some

2440
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:47,920
of that yourself

2441
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:50,719
and defend our work obviously the proof

2442
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:51,600
is in the pudding

2443
01:26:55,030 --> 01:26:53,679
where's your work what are you doing

2444
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:55,040
that's really the key

2445
01:27:01,270 --> 01:26:59,040
and you can rest assured that we will

2446
01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:01,280
deconstruct as i said this particular

2447
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:02,560
toxic individual

2448
01:27:06,870 --> 01:27:04,880
i'm furious about her behavior i think

2449
01:27:07,510 --> 01:27:06,880
she has a narcissistic personality

2450
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:07,520
disorder

2451
01:27:11,669 --> 01:27:10,320
and is seriously deranged and we will go

2452
01:27:13,510 --> 01:27:11,679
through all that we will go through the

2453
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:13,520
different personality disorders

2454
01:27:18,149 --> 01:27:15,600
and examples from her past behavior in

2455
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:18,159
terms of how she fits this profile and

2456
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:19,920
her work such as it is

2457
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:22,159
and the work of some of her allies who

2458
01:27:26,229 --> 01:27:23,040
are frankly

2459
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:26,239
dishonest disreputable lying people

2460
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:28,800
in particular ben moss and uh we're just

2461
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:30,560
gonna have at it we're just gonna

2462
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:32,960
basically take as much time as we need

2463
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:33,600
to take

2464
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:35,840
to basically take her apart she's got a

2465
01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:38,159
long track record of attacking people

2466
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:41,600
and being very very slimy in this field

2467
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:44,480
and she chose to take us on and she

2468
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:45,760
stepped out of her weight class

2469
01:27:48,950 --> 01:27:46,400
basically

2470
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,960
i'm gonna that up okay i'm

2471
01:27:52,629 --> 01:27:50,159
gonna get on this show

2472
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:52,639
and i'm gonna take her apart because i

2473
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:53,520
did her show

2474
01:27:57,750 --> 01:27:55,679
well we'll get into it all you mean that

2475
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,760
metaphorically when you say that

2476
01:28:00,870 --> 01:27:59,360
yes yes you have metaphorically of

2477
01:28:01,669 --> 01:28:00,880
course metaphorically and i just want to

2478
01:28:03,910 --> 01:28:01,679
make that clear

2479
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:03,920
i wanted to say something that i thought

2480
01:28:07,189 --> 01:28:04,960
was really odd

2481
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:07,199
and that is you know here we are working

2482
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:08,000
so hard

2483
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:11,120
regarding the topic of ufology and

2484
01:28:15,590 --> 01:28:14,639
uh research into other phenomena and uh

2485
01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:15,600
you find this

2486
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:17,520
mug shot on yourself you know like here

2487
01:28:20,870 --> 01:28:19,199
we are just ufo buffs

2488
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:20,880
and she's posting your mug shot like

2489
01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:23,840
what does that have to do with ufology

2490
01:28:27,430 --> 01:28:25,360
i'm kind of surprised nobody found it

2491
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:27,440
sooner to be honest but you know

2492
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:30,159
again uh it is kind of interesting it

2493
01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:31,840
was a an experience it was kind of

2494
01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:33,360
interesting because it was basically an

2495
01:28:36,470 --> 01:28:35,760
altercation between me and a friend of a

2496
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:36,480
friend

2497
01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:39,760
so uh nothing altercation nobody got

2498
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:41,360
hurt it was basically nothing

2499
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:44,159
but the this guy didn't like the result

2500
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:44,639
and he

2501
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:46,639
went to the cops and i got arrested it

2502
01:28:50,950 --> 01:28:48,000
happened to anybody

2503
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:50,960
somebody goes and files a report and you

2504
01:28:54,310 --> 01:28:52,800
know

2505
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:54,320
it can happen it can happen to a lot of

2506
01:28:57,590 --> 01:28:56,000
people it happened to me ultimately

2507
01:28:59,030 --> 01:28:57,600
the system worked like i said the case

2508
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:59,040
was thrown out at the preliminary

2509
01:29:02,709 --> 01:29:00,239
hearing level

2510
01:29:03,750 --> 01:29:02,719
but uh it was a very instructive

2511
01:29:05,270 --> 01:29:03,760
experience because

2512
01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:05,280
there was something so wrong with this

2513
01:29:10,390 --> 01:29:07,199
guy and so toxic with this guy

2514
01:29:11,910 --> 01:29:10,400
i basically i googled you know

2515
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:11,920
what i thought was wrong with him was

2516
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:13,600
very interesting because what i got a

2517
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:14,960
lot of results were

2518
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:17,760
was a psychopath and i started uh

2519
01:29:20,470 --> 01:29:18,480
seriously

2520
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:20,480
investigating malignant personality

2521
01:29:24,149 --> 01:29:23,440
disorders psychopaths sociopaths and so

2522
01:29:26,390 --> 01:29:24,159
on and

2523
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,400
the lesser of that group would be

2524
01:29:30,390 --> 01:29:28,480
someone with a narcissistic personality

2525
01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:30,400
disorder uh there's no question in my

2526
01:29:33,910 --> 01:29:31,679
mind luke's has it

2527
01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:33,920
and uh you know i'm not gonna put up

2528
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:35,920
with this i'm just not gonna do it

2529
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:37,760
uh the gloves are off i've already

2530
01:29:40,950 --> 01:29:39,120
actually uh even before

2531
01:29:42,790 --> 01:29:40,960
this recent thing happened i approached

2532
01:29:46,229 --> 01:29:42,800
dave scott and asked him

2533
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:46,239
uh as a neutral uh uh a neutral host

2534
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:48,560
uh to have a me and her on i'm sick of

2535
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:50,639
her there's no question about it

2536
01:29:53,990 --> 01:29:53,040
and uh the gloves are off and uh we're

2537
01:29:57,510 --> 01:29:54,000
just gonna take this

2538
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:57,520
apart i'm sick of her

2539
01:30:01,669 --> 01:30:00,000
and uh we'll do this i don't know maybe

2540
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:01,679
maybe next sunday we'll do it well and

2541
01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:03,520
i just wanted to mention something i've

2542
01:30:08,790 --> 01:30:05,199
had to deal with regarding her

2543
01:30:12,070 --> 01:30:08,800
um dividing the ufo community uh

2544
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:12,080
yet again which she is known for uh

2545
01:30:15,669 --> 01:30:14,560
uh doing uh it goes back to trying to

2546
01:30:17,270 --> 01:30:15,679
bring isaac

2547
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:17,280
out of the business a respected

2548
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,199
researcher who happens to want to work

2549
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:21,120
out under a pseudonym because of his day

2550
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:21,600
job

2551
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:23,520
you know i mean that that's his business

2552
01:30:27,510 --> 01:30:24,800
if somebody works under super

2553
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:27,520
what you do is you judge the bottom line

2554
01:30:29,350 --> 01:30:28,960
somebody's going to go have to go back

2555
01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:29,360
and

2556
01:30:33,189 --> 01:30:31,120
dig pretty deep guess what they won't

2557
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:33,199
find it where i'm involved in

2558
01:30:36,790 --> 01:30:34,560
trying to run somebody out of the

2559
01:30:37,510 --> 01:30:36,800
business or uh trying to attack somebody

2560
01:30:39,030 --> 01:30:37,520
or anything

2561
01:30:41,110 --> 01:30:39,040
along those lines there's been the

2562
01:30:42,229 --> 01:30:41,120
occasional uh you know spirited back and

2563
01:30:43,910 --> 01:30:42,239
forth especially

2564
01:30:45,990 --> 01:30:43,920
going back to the socorro case there was

2565
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:46,000
a lot of that back in those days

2566
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:48,639
but you know that that that's that's

2567
01:30:52,149 --> 01:30:49,600
part of the game

2568
01:30:52,709 --> 01:30:52,159
but uh this this woman is a cheap shot

2569
01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:52,719
artist

2570
01:30:55,990 --> 01:30:54,960
she is a scumbag she has a blight on

2571
01:30:57,990 --> 01:30:56,000
ufology

2572
01:30:59,189 --> 01:30:58,000
and we're gonna go through all of it her

2573
01:31:02,310 --> 01:30:59,199
long track record

2574
01:31:04,550 --> 01:31:02,320
of doing this kind of garbage and just

2575
01:31:06,310 --> 01:31:04,560
attacking people for no reason and

2576
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,320
believe me

2577
01:31:10,390 --> 01:31:08,480
it's the fire is going to go both ways

2578
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:10,400
believe me she wants

2579
01:31:13,189 --> 01:31:11,760
guess what that's about the worst thing

2580
01:31:14,870 --> 01:31:13,199
that she's going to be able to find

2581
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:14,880
about me there's no criminal record

2582
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:15,360
there

2583
01:31:18,310 --> 01:31:16,560
nothing like that no no no no let me

2584
01:31:18,950 --> 01:31:18,320
finish let me finish there's no criminal

2585
01:31:21,590 --> 01:31:18,960
record there

2586
01:31:21,990 --> 01:31:21,600
you know my criminal record is clean

2587
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:22,000
yeah

2588
01:31:26,229 --> 01:31:24,960
there's that arrest okay uh you know and

2589
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:26,239
there was a dui

2590
01:31:29,990 --> 01:31:28,400
back in the 80s too so there's that so

2591
01:31:32,310 --> 01:31:30,000
nobody cares about duis

2592
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:32,320
dui's have nothing to do with the topic

2593
01:31:36,310 --> 01:31:33,679
of ufology

2594
01:31:37,510 --> 01:31:36,320
um you know i i just like there's a

2595
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:37,520
group out there i won't mention their

2596
01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:39,360
name at all will not mention names

2597
01:31:42,790 --> 01:31:40,800
regarding the group or the folks

2598
01:31:45,270 --> 01:31:42,800
involved but they have

2599
01:31:45,990 --> 01:31:45,280
all the dui's of a certain person who's

2600
01:31:48,229 --> 01:31:46,000
iconic

2601
01:31:49,990 --> 01:31:48,239
in the realm of ufology in this group

2602
01:31:52,229 --> 01:31:50,000
they have kept it the post up

2603
01:31:53,750 --> 01:31:52,239
i have no idea why they've done that but

2604
01:31:55,110 --> 01:31:53,760
i just wanted to mention something to

2605
01:31:56,629 --> 01:31:55,120
you frank and that is

2606
01:31:59,110 --> 01:31:56,639
you know i've had to deal with character

2607
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:59,120
assassination uh posts recently by erica

2608
01:32:03,270 --> 01:31:59,679
which

2609
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:03,280
um uh i heard well

2610
01:32:06,390 --> 01:32:04,880
attempts at it because they didn't

2611
01:32:08,149 --> 01:32:06,400
assassinate your character your

2612
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:08,159
character is still strong just as mine

2613
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:08,800
is

2614
01:32:12,870 --> 01:32:11,440
right well exactly that's a great

2615
01:32:13,430 --> 01:32:12,880
separation regarding what i just said

2616
01:32:16,870 --> 01:32:13,440
but

2617
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:16,880
this post that she did what she did was

2618
01:32:22,950 --> 01:32:20,639
uh she posted some material

2619
01:32:23,990 --> 01:32:22,960
on me that was fake and what i mean by

2620
01:32:26,709 --> 01:32:24,000
fake is

2621
01:32:27,110 --> 01:32:26,719
a person who is absolutely out of their

2622
01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:27,120
mind

2623
01:32:33,669 --> 01:32:30,400
who has 24 different profiles

2624
01:32:37,350 --> 01:32:33,679
on facebook and absolutely knows

2625
01:32:40,310 --> 01:32:37,360
nothing about me made up a spew of lies

2626
01:32:41,189 --> 01:32:40,320
due to jealousy and then after she

2627
01:32:44,550 --> 01:32:41,199
posted this

2628
01:32:46,229 --> 01:32:44,560
under an article of uh

2629
01:32:47,830 --> 01:32:46,239
somewhere i don't know where it was it's

2630
01:32:49,350 --> 01:32:47,840
you know social media is it's hard to

2631
01:32:51,750 --> 01:32:49,360
keep up with sometimes

2632
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:51,760
in the mountains of material out there

2633
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,239
and somebody found this obscure comment

2634
01:32:59,830 --> 01:32:56,719
that she made this crazy person made

2635
01:33:02,870 --> 01:32:59,840
and then uh erica reposted

2636
01:33:05,990 --> 01:33:02,880
this uh mentally deranged person's

2637
01:33:06,790 --> 01:33:06,000
lies and falsehood a false story about

2638
01:33:10,790 --> 01:33:06,800
me

2639
01:33:13,430 --> 01:33:10,800
on her page and what i did was i went to

2640
01:33:13,910 --> 01:33:13,440
the place that actually had the post up

2641
01:33:17,669 --> 01:33:13,920
let

2642
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:17,679
the folks know related to this post

2643
01:33:24,550 --> 01:33:21,120
about the legal issues regarding it and

2644
01:33:27,510 --> 01:33:24,560
uh the person involved took it down

2645
01:33:29,189 --> 01:33:27,520
immediately because again of the legal

2646
01:33:30,629 --> 01:33:29,199
implications of the slander and the

2647
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:30,639
libel behind it

2648
01:33:35,990 --> 01:33:34,320
um so then i went ahead and went to

2649
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:36,000
erica's page and i wrote

2650
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:39,040
there that these lies

2651
01:33:49,270 --> 01:33:46,629
fair but what is the point of spreading

2652
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:49,280
lies about a person in ufology

2653
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:51,280
it just tells me there's a huge personal

2654
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:52,880
issue with

2655
01:33:57,110 --> 01:33:55,199
erica that has she has she has a

2656
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:57,120
narcissistic personality disorder

2657
01:34:00,629 --> 01:33:58,719
there's no question

2658
01:34:02,310 --> 01:34:00,639
you and i have never done slanderous

2659
01:34:02,709 --> 01:34:02,320
posts on her i want to make that clear

2660
01:34:05,110 --> 01:34:02,719
we've

2661
01:34:06,950 --> 01:34:05,120
never done that the only thing i've ever

2662
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:06,960
done with regards to her

2663
01:34:13,350 --> 01:34:10,239
is on that show with chase kletzke

2664
01:34:16,390 --> 01:34:13,360
uh uh i made it clear that i felt

2665
01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:16,400
that erica going out of her way after

2666
01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:19,760
chase had spent uh years

2667
01:34:25,669 --> 01:34:23,280
as second in command with mufan

2668
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:25,679
the first thing erica did as soon as she

2669
01:34:28,950 --> 01:34:26,320
got when

2670
01:34:31,030 --> 01:34:28,960
that chase was stepping down not

2671
01:34:32,470 --> 01:34:31,040
resigning from mufon by the way but

2672
01:34:34,709 --> 01:34:32,480
stepping down from her second

2673
01:34:36,470 --> 01:34:34,719
in command post at mufon because she's

2674
01:34:39,030 --> 01:34:36,480
still at mofon

2675
01:34:40,950 --> 01:34:39,040
uh she went and wrote an article and i

2676
01:34:42,550 --> 01:34:40,960
say that in air quotes because it was

2677
01:34:45,830 --> 01:34:42,560
not really an article it was like

2678
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:45,840
a like a two-year-old wrote it

2679
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:49,199
she said that chase had stepped down

2680
01:34:53,590 --> 01:34:52,400
due to misconduct uh allegations of

2681
01:34:56,709 --> 01:34:53,600
misconduct

2682
01:34:58,870 --> 01:34:56,719
in mufon which was a lie and it turned

2683
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:58,880
out chase has stepped down voluntarily

2684
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:00,400
because she's doing something

2685
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:03,840
on behalf of the ufo community which

2686
01:35:08,149 --> 01:35:06,159
only two people are known to do and that

2687
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:08,159
is herself and steve bassett

2688
01:35:13,830 --> 01:35:11,360
regarding lobbying in washington

2689
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:13,840
on behalf of the ufo community my point

2690
01:35:17,750 --> 01:35:15,600
to her was

2691
01:35:19,030 --> 01:35:17,760
if you're going to write an article and

2692
01:35:22,550 --> 01:35:19,040
call it one

2693
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:22,560
why not check your sources it's just

2694
01:35:26,790 --> 01:35:24,880
called journalism 101 and it's also

2695
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:26,800
moral and ethical behavior

2696
01:35:30,310 --> 01:35:28,880
regarding publishing anything about

2697
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:30,320
anybody online

2698
01:35:33,830 --> 01:35:32,080
i think it's terrible that chase is

2699
01:35:36,390 --> 01:35:33,840
going through lung cancer

2700
01:35:37,430 --> 01:35:36,400
and spent all of her blood sweat tears

2701
01:35:39,910 --> 01:35:37,440
and own money

2702
01:35:40,470 --> 01:35:39,920
after a couple decades or more at mufon

2703
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:40,480
to step

2704
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:43,600
down at her post voluntarily

2705
01:35:47,189 --> 01:35:46,480
as second in command only to have that

2706
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:47,199
article by

2707
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:50,320
ericle erica written as like the period

2708
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:51,840
at the end of the sentence

2709
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:55,040
for all of chase's fine work at mufon

2710
01:35:58,590 --> 01:35:57,920
that's not only undeserving and unfair

2711
01:36:01,030 --> 01:35:58,600
it's

2712
01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:01,040
reprehensible that erica would do

2713
01:36:04,229 --> 01:36:02,080
something like that

2714
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:04,239
that's not true journalism that is

2715
01:36:07,590 --> 01:36:05,760
social depravity

2716
01:36:08,790 --> 01:36:07,600
now she says she's sick there's

2717
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,800
something wrong with her

2718
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:11,679
and uh we will get down to it we'll also

2719
01:36:15,910 --> 01:36:12,960
deconstruct some of her

2720
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:15,920
uh dishonest colleagues like ray

2721
01:36:19,270 --> 01:36:16,800
stanford

2722
01:36:20,950 --> 01:36:19,280
ben moss uh i don't know of any

2723
01:36:22,629 --> 01:36:20,960
dishonesty in scott brown

2724
01:36:24,550 --> 01:36:22,639
but this guy seems to have a very high

2725
01:36:25,590 --> 01:36:24,560
opinion of himself but if you look at

2726
01:36:28,070 --> 01:36:25,600
his website

2727
01:36:30,149 --> 01:36:28,080
you know you'll you'll see his

2728
01:36:30,950 --> 01:36:30,159
investigation into his brother's lawn

2729
01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:30,960
which has

2730
01:36:34,629 --> 01:36:33,199
some unusual grass growth i mean it's a

2731
01:36:36,550 --> 01:36:34,639
hysterically

2732
01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:36,560
nothing stuff you want to look at my

2733
01:36:41,590 --> 01:36:38,080
website yeah you can see my

2734
01:36:44,149 --> 01:36:41,600
website uh if uh you'll see that

2735
01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:44,159
in the uh the scroll bar well yeah in

2736
01:36:48,109 --> 01:36:44,719
the bottom

2737
01:36:49,430 --> 01:36:48,119
third down here at the page uh

2738
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:49,440
ufopartisan.blogspot.com

2739
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:51,600
the kind of research that i did when i

2740
01:36:55,109 --> 01:36:53,040
first started in this field

2741
01:36:56,550 --> 01:36:55,119
finding a documented meeting in the

2742
01:37:00,149 --> 01:36:56,560
white house regarding

2743
01:37:02,629 --> 01:37:00,159
the 1952 dc ufo case

2744
01:37:04,790 --> 01:37:02,639
nobody found that before solving the

2745
01:37:06,709 --> 01:37:04,800
socorro case

2746
01:37:08,470 --> 01:37:06,719
other articles in there that i think

2747
01:37:11,629 --> 01:37:08,480
you'll all find quite interesting

2748
01:37:13,270 --> 01:37:11,639
you've got that chance website

2749
01:37:14,629 --> 01:37:13,280
hannah.wordpress.com where she's got

2750
01:37:15,590 --> 01:37:14,639
those interviews and links to the

2751
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,600
interviews here

2752
01:37:18,870 --> 01:37:17,280
of course you can find those right on

2753
01:37:20,470 --> 01:37:18,880
youtube but that there's a lot of great

2754
01:37:22,709 --> 01:37:20,480
text interviews that

2755
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:22,719
that you did before we started hosting

2756
01:37:26,550 --> 01:37:23,760
the show together

2757
01:37:27,669 --> 01:37:26,560
so there's that you've got uh me running

2758
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:27,679
a group with more than

2759
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:31,760
70 000 members uh at facebook

2760
01:37:38,550 --> 01:37:34,880
where we've got it as good a ufo

2761
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:38,560
news feed as you will find anywhere okay

2762
01:37:44,310 --> 01:37:41,920
judge the work okay yeah you want to

2763
01:37:46,950 --> 01:37:44,320
question my integrity erica luke's

2764
01:37:48,629 --> 01:37:46,960
yeah judge the work it's the work not

2765
01:37:50,070 --> 01:37:48,639
something that happened 13 years ago

2766
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:50,080
yeah it is a fact that i did get

2767
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:50,880
arrested

2768
01:37:55,109 --> 01:37:53,520
but not guilty in fact it didn't even

2769
01:37:55,669 --> 01:37:55,119
get to the point of being guilty or not

2770
01:37:57,830 --> 01:37:55,679
guilty

2771
01:37:58,790 --> 01:37:57,840
case was thrown out it was that weak and

2772
01:38:01,109 --> 01:37:58,800
you know what else

2773
01:38:03,990 --> 01:38:01,119
you're weak too you better get ready you

2774
01:38:07,189 --> 01:38:04,000
better batten down your hatches

2775
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:07,199
because you pissed me the off

2776
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:08,880
that's understandable you know it's not

2777
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:11,520
just you either i've had people come to

2778
01:38:16,070 --> 01:38:12,880
me privately

2779
01:38:19,109 --> 01:38:16,080
uh very upset regarding what they felt

2780
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:19,119
was a huge personal issue erica had

2781
01:38:23,270 --> 01:38:20,239
decided

2782
01:38:26,149 --> 01:38:23,280
she had with somebody for whatever

2783
01:38:27,910 --> 01:38:26,159
uh petty reason that had really nothing

2784
01:38:28,950 --> 01:38:27,920
to do with them but everything to do

2785
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:28,960
with her

2786
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:31,520
and i think it's time that people call

2787
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:33,760
her out on her bs because what's going

2788
01:38:36,790 --> 01:38:34,159
on

2789
01:38:38,149 --> 01:38:36,800
is she's actually creating such a divide

2790
01:38:41,350 --> 01:38:38,159
in the ufo community

2791
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:41,360
she's actually using scott brown's

2792
01:38:45,430 --> 01:38:44,239
in the field group to serve as her

2793
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:45,440
platform

2794
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:49,199
of uh basically a soapbox to air out all

2795
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:50,239
her petty

2796
01:38:56,870 --> 01:38:53,600
issues let me let me jump in here scott

2797
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,880
brown is a gutless puke okay i found out

2798
01:39:01,910 --> 01:38:58,960
about uh those kind of posts and uh

2799
01:39:02,950 --> 01:39:01,920
what was going on over there and i asked

2800
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:02,960
to enter the group

2801
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:06,239
okay and uh i knew he wouldn't do it

2802
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:08,080
i knew he wouldn't let me in but uh

2803
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:09,760
because that's how these people are

2804
01:39:13,270 --> 01:39:11,600
she was constantly wanting oh chase

2805
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:13,280
doesn't address these questions we have

2806
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:14,000
chase does

2807
01:39:17,510 --> 01:39:16,480
uh when dealing with klutzke well now

2808
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:17,520
she's dealing with us

2809
01:39:20,709 --> 01:39:19,199
we're more than happy to address these

2810
01:39:22,629 --> 01:39:20,719
questions but here we are getting

2811
01:39:24,229 --> 01:39:22,639
blocked here we are not allowed in

2812
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:24,239
not allowed to defend ourselves where

2813
01:39:29,830 --> 01:39:27,840
they're slandering us okay well

2814
01:39:31,750 --> 01:39:29,840
the gloves are off now the gloves are

2815
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:31,760
off

2816
01:39:35,270 --> 01:39:34,639
so you know uh just wanted to mention

2817
01:39:36,390 --> 01:39:35,280
this

2818
01:39:38,870 --> 01:39:36,400
since we're talking about it because

2819
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:38,880
it's kind of important uh to mention

2820
01:39:43,189 --> 01:39:42,000
if people go into in the field group by

2821
01:39:44,950 --> 01:39:43,199
scott brown which is

2822
01:39:47,030 --> 01:39:44,960
touted as a group that looks for

2823
01:39:48,149 --> 01:39:47,040
evidence and i'm not quite sure what

2824
01:39:52,229 --> 01:39:48,159
else

2825
01:39:54,149 --> 01:39:52,239
is lawn growing right and

2826
01:39:56,229 --> 01:39:54,159
really hot stuff and at some late it

2827
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:56,239
seems like some nice lady cinema

2828
01:39:59,430 --> 01:39:57,920
sent him a photograph something she

2829
01:40:01,669 --> 01:39:59,440
didn't notice and then she saw

2830
01:40:02,709 --> 01:40:01,679
uh some some kind of object in the sky

2831
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:02,719
and it's like

2832
01:40:06,310 --> 01:40:04,560
yeah and she seems like a nice lady i'm

2833
01:40:07,510 --> 01:40:06,320
not gonna trash her she said it to the

2834
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:07,520
guy but yeah i mean

2835
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,000
that's his research that's his research

2836
01:40:13,350 --> 01:40:12,239
there is a post that he created that

2837
01:40:16,550 --> 01:40:13,360
everybody reposts

2838
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:16,560
and not i say everybody let me restate

2839
01:40:21,750 --> 01:40:17,920
that

2840
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:21,760
own fb groups facebook groups

2841
01:40:25,669 --> 01:40:24,880
will repost his poster that's basically

2842
01:40:28,950 --> 01:40:25,679
in the field

2843
01:40:32,390 --> 01:40:28,960
hoaxes and um debunking folks

2844
01:40:33,910 --> 01:40:32,400
the thing is is that list who do we know

2845
01:40:37,030 --> 01:40:33,920
who determined

2846
01:40:37,910 --> 01:40:37,040
who was uh to be debunked absolutely

2847
01:40:40,149 --> 01:40:37,920
i've seen

2848
01:40:41,189 --> 01:40:40,159
that and so i know i know folks in the

2849
01:40:44,229 --> 01:40:41,199
ufo community that

2850
01:40:47,189 --> 01:40:44,239
will refuse to post that poster he made

2851
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:47,199
because they don't know who actually

2852
01:40:51,590 --> 01:40:49,280
decided who was a hoax

2853
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:51,600
or who was to be debunked so that's an

2854
01:40:55,109 --> 01:40:53,199
issue the other issue is

2855
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:55,119
there is a lady by and this is connected

2856
01:40:58,390 --> 01:40:56,400
to what i'm talking about

2857
01:41:00,310 --> 01:40:58,400
uh regarding scott brown and his group

2858
01:41:01,669 --> 01:41:00,320
there's a lady by the name of melissa

2859
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:01,679
kennedy

2860
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:03,760
she went into my global female

2861
01:41:06,870 --> 01:41:05,280
researchers group you were there frank

2862
01:41:09,910 --> 01:41:06,880
you saw her you were with me

2863
01:41:11,350 --> 01:41:09,920
yeah you know i blew her off i know she

2864
01:41:13,669 --> 01:41:11,360
tried to actually create

2865
01:41:14,709 --> 01:41:13,679
a fake event which i actually with

2866
01:41:16,149 --> 01:41:14,719
screenshots

2867
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,159
and i can use the word proof here

2868
01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:18,480
verifiably and authentically

2869
01:41:24,470 --> 01:41:21,760
proved that she was trying to set up

2870
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:24,480
myself in this group by the way she's

2871
01:41:27,270 --> 01:41:25,600
friends with erica

2872
01:41:29,430 --> 01:41:27,280
and scott brown so you'll see where i'm

2873
01:41:32,870 --> 01:41:29,440
going with this to stay

2874
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:32,880
on or from her from uh she was basically

2875
01:41:35,350 --> 01:41:33,440
saying

2876
01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:35,360
she was kicked out of the global female

2877
01:41:39,109 --> 01:41:36,480
researchers group

2878
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:39,119
while she was sitting in the group

2879
01:41:42,629 --> 01:41:40,800
stating in a post

2880
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:42,639
in the global female researchers group

2881
01:41:45,510 --> 01:41:44,239
saying hey i've been kicked out of the

2882
01:41:47,750 --> 01:41:45,520
group why did you do that

2883
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:47,760
basically is what she was saying and i

2884
01:41:50,629 --> 01:41:48,960
said okay

2885
01:41:52,070 --> 01:41:50,639
you're saying you're you've been kicked

2886
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:52,080
out of the group you're sitting right

2887
01:41:55,430 --> 01:41:53,679
there while you're in the group

2888
01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:55,440
if you want to get kicked out that bad

2889
01:41:59,669 --> 01:41:56,719
i'll just block you

2890
01:41:59,990 --> 01:41:59,679
i did that then she ran to scott brown's

2891
01:42:01,990 --> 01:42:00,000
group

2892
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:02,000
and said uh the global female

2893
01:42:07,590 --> 01:42:03,440
researchers group

2894
01:42:10,629 --> 01:42:07,600
um that i and that group were a sham

2895
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:10,639
and because she got kicked out so then i

2896
01:42:13,990 --> 01:42:12,800
see screenshots from friends who are in

2897
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:14,000
scott brown's group on

2898
01:42:18,229 --> 01:42:16,480
my behalf and and other people's behalf

2899
01:42:19,910 --> 01:42:18,239
because they're tired of the person

2900
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:19,920
character assassinations giving me

2901
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:21,920
screenshots saying um

2902
01:42:26,550 --> 01:42:24,800
basically scott brown is using his group

2903
01:42:30,550 --> 01:42:26,560
to allow melissa kennedy

2904
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:30,560
and erica luke's and ted rowe

2905
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:34,080
and others who act toxic in the ufo

2906
01:42:37,510 --> 01:42:35,119
community

2907
01:42:39,830 --> 01:42:37,520
to make all kinds of character

2908
01:42:43,270 --> 01:42:39,840
assassination related comments

2909
01:42:46,870 --> 01:42:43,280
about us that are based on pure

2910
01:42:49,750 --> 01:42:46,880
lies so my my my point is this

2911
01:42:50,470 --> 01:42:49,760
scott brown who states he is into

2912
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:50,480
evidence

2913
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:53,840
and debunking of hoaxes why

2914
01:43:00,550 --> 01:42:57,040
is he so reliant uh

2915
01:43:02,870 --> 01:43:00,560
upon people's fake stories about

2916
01:43:05,590 --> 01:43:02,880
people like us who are working our asses

2917
01:43:06,870 --> 01:43:05,600
off in the realm of ufology and other

2918
01:43:09,910 --> 01:43:06,880
phenomena

2919
01:43:11,750 --> 01:43:09,920
and claiming that he's in evidence while

2920
01:43:15,030 --> 01:43:11,760
doing the exact

2921
01:43:17,590 --> 01:43:15,040
opposite well

2922
01:43:19,189 --> 01:43:17,600
you know there are some bad sites on

2923
01:43:21,430 --> 01:43:19,199
that list i mean basically for the most

2924
01:43:25,510 --> 01:43:21,440
part i try to focus on the positive

2925
01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:25,520
and i i don't even uh like in my group

2926
01:43:28,629 --> 01:43:27,520
secure team 10 third phase of the

2927
01:43:30,470 --> 01:43:28,639
movement

2928
01:43:32,229 --> 01:43:30,480
well no let me let me finish let me let

2929
01:43:32,709 --> 01:43:32,239
me get a question from scott brown to

2930
01:43:36,870 --> 01:43:32,719
know

2931
01:43:39,590 --> 01:43:36,880
secure team 10. the way they are

2932
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:39,600
yep so uh yeah i want to i want to go

2933
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:41,199
ahead and uh basically uh

2934
01:43:44,390 --> 01:43:42,960
i knew i knew scott wouldn't have the

2935
01:43:46,149 --> 01:43:44,400
guts to allow me into the group and

2936
01:43:49,669 --> 01:43:46,159
defend myself and his group

2937
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:49,679
or defend our show or defend you uh from

2938
01:43:56,310 --> 01:43:52,880
uh his slanders so uh basically uh yeah

2939
01:43:57,990 --> 01:43:56,320
you have to uh uh after it became clear

2940
01:43:59,030 --> 01:43:58,000
after a couple attempts to be allowed

2941
01:44:01,990 --> 01:43:59,040
into the group but

2942
01:44:02,709 --> 01:44:02,000
and i told uh i told someone that i got

2943
01:44:06,149 --> 01:44:02,719
these

2944
01:44:09,030 --> 01:44:06,159
uh individual um

2945
01:44:10,070 --> 01:44:09,040
screenshots from that uh yeah i knew it

2946
01:44:13,270 --> 01:44:10,080
wasn't going to do it

2947
01:44:15,750 --> 01:44:13,280
but uh yeah basically and i'll read

2948
01:44:17,430 --> 01:44:15,760
my my final request that thanks for not

2949
01:44:17,990 --> 01:44:17,440
letting me in you i knew you

2950
01:44:19,990 --> 01:44:18,000
wouldn't

2951
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:20,000
i never bowed anybody who didn't start

2952
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:22,880
up with me my co-host or my show first

2953
01:44:26,470 --> 01:44:24,960
when you get it back you run and hide

2954
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,480
like the cowards you

2955
01:44:29,990 --> 01:44:28,560
are i stand by that statement i'm

2956
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:30,000
putting it out there myself

2957
01:44:34,149 --> 01:44:31,760
i'm putting it out there publicly he

2958
01:44:35,830 --> 01:44:34,159
posted it there and he's got a lot of uh

2959
01:44:37,590 --> 01:44:35,840
supporters and not talking about me

2960
01:44:39,350 --> 01:44:37,600
being thin skinned and

2961
01:44:41,430 --> 01:44:39,360
and all that but you know what i'm not

2962
01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:41,440
thin skin my my skin is pretty thick

2963
01:44:44,790 --> 01:44:42,960
we've had some of these discussions

2964
01:44:46,310 --> 01:44:44,800
before where uh you know

2965
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:46,320
you're telling me yeah hey your skin's

2966
01:44:49,030 --> 01:44:47,840
pretty thick it's thicker than mine and

2967
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:49,040
so on and so forth

2968
01:44:52,629 --> 01:44:51,040
but after a while you know enough is

2969
01:44:54,709 --> 01:44:52,639
enough i'm sick of this

2970
01:44:57,270 --> 01:44:54,719
and uh we're just gonna go through it in

2971
01:45:00,229 --> 01:44:57,280
detail in excruciating

2972
01:45:01,430 --> 01:45:00,239
detail uh probably i don't know you want

2973
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:01,440
to do this next sunday because like i

2974
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:02,719
said we got alejandra

2975
01:45:05,990 --> 01:45:04,560
fine and that will be difficult for me

2976
01:45:08,070 --> 01:45:06,000
to do and by the way regarding thick

2977
01:45:11,350 --> 01:45:08,080
skin just want to let everybody know

2978
01:45:14,629 --> 01:45:11,360
i have been a group owner of uh

2979
01:45:16,629 --> 01:45:14,639
many ufo groups on facebook and also the

2980
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:16,639
admin of up to 20

2981
01:45:20,310 --> 01:45:19,440
different groups on facebook some at a

2982
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:20,320
hundred thousand

2983
01:45:23,590 --> 01:45:22,800
or more member levels some below that

2984
01:45:25,030 --> 01:45:23,600
and uh

2985
01:45:26,870 --> 01:45:25,040
you know you have to have a thick skin

2986
01:45:27,910 --> 01:45:26,880
because as an admin in those groups and

2987
01:45:30,229 --> 01:45:27,920
a group owner

2988
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:30,239
you come across people of all different

2989
01:45:34,950 --> 01:45:31,600
kinds of backgrounds

2990
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:34,960
very toxic a lot of times and uh

2991
01:45:41,910 --> 01:45:38,320
so uh also just in life in general uh

2992
01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:43,669
there's just a point where when

2993
01:45:47,910 --> 01:45:46,320
somebody's posting a mug shot though

2994
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:47,920
i mean it's just like i don't care about

2995
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:49,920
that i don't care about that really

2996
01:45:53,669 --> 01:45:52,880
you know it was uh uh you know the

2997
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:53,679
system worked

2998
01:45:57,270 --> 01:45:56,800
the case was thrown out it's like yeah

2999
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:57,280
it's like

3000
01:46:01,590 --> 01:45:59,199
the principal i think she thinks she's

3001
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:01,600
really hurting me she's not

3002
01:46:05,910 --> 01:46:04,400
but my point is this i understand that

3003
01:46:07,590 --> 01:46:05,920
and i know you're right

3004
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:07,600
um and i'm not saying that it affected

3005
01:46:10,070 --> 01:46:09,040
you in that in the manner in which i'm

3006
01:46:13,830 --> 01:46:10,080
speaking

3007
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:13,840
but i'm calling her out for using

3008
01:46:20,709 --> 01:46:17,280
low life tactics to

3009
01:46:22,709 --> 01:46:20,719
spread a fake profile of you

3010
01:46:23,830 --> 01:46:22,719
that is absolutely unequivocally not

3011
01:46:25,189 --> 01:46:23,840
true now

3012
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:25,199
back to my point about being

3013
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:27,040
thick-skinned uh

3014
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:30,400
you know she can go uh all day making up

3015
01:46:36,070 --> 01:46:33,920
lies and stories about us but

3016
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:36,080
at the end of the day i i think the

3017
01:46:41,590 --> 01:46:38,400
person with the thinnest skin is her

3018
01:46:44,310 --> 01:46:41,600
because is absolutely katie absolutely

3019
01:46:45,430 --> 01:46:44,320
she's dedicating her life and time to

3020
01:46:49,189 --> 01:46:45,440
spreading this kind of

3021
01:46:51,669 --> 01:46:49,199
toxic uh material about people

3022
01:46:55,030 --> 01:46:51,679
who are actually looking up in the sky

3023
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,040
and covering topics like you and i and

3024
01:46:58,229 --> 01:46:57,360
in general uh that sounds like a huge

3025
01:47:00,870 --> 01:46:58,239
personal issue

3026
01:47:03,350 --> 01:47:00,880
she has that she she's and i can't help

3027
01:47:05,350 --> 01:47:03,360
her with that there's nothing i can do

3028
01:47:06,709 --> 01:47:05,360
to help her with that like i don't even

3029
01:47:08,550 --> 01:47:06,719
have any empathy

3030
01:47:10,550 --> 01:47:08,560
with her regarding that what she's

3031
01:47:13,270 --> 01:47:10,560
trying to do is ruin people's

3032
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:13,280
lives out for what well she's trying

3033
01:47:16,390 --> 01:47:14,239
she's trying

3034
01:47:17,669 --> 01:47:16,400
but again the bottom line is the work i

3035
01:47:18,870 --> 01:47:17,679
mean my life could be a complete

3036
01:47:21,270 --> 01:47:18,880
catastrophe

3037
01:47:22,310 --> 01:47:21,280
it's not uh you know i'm pretty happy

3038
01:47:25,669 --> 01:47:22,320
with it but

3039
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:25,679
as far as the ufo stuff goes this is

3040
01:47:29,350 --> 01:47:27,280
great this is great stuff

3041
01:47:31,270 --> 01:47:29,360
and i don't even have a problem with

3042
01:47:31,669 --> 01:47:31,280
this because i kind of relish it you

3043
01:47:33,430 --> 01:47:31,679
know

3044
01:47:35,189 --> 01:47:33,440
i miss my old hockey playing days

3045
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,199
because i used to play against

3046
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:37,440
guys like this uh you know once in a

3047
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:38,400
while now and again

3048
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:41,040
you get these cheap shot artists and uh

3049
01:47:43,750 --> 01:47:42,320
you know once in a while you would get

3050
01:47:45,430 --> 01:47:43,760
tired of it and you would give it back

3051
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:45,440
and they'd be the ones who would cry the

3052
01:47:49,109 --> 01:47:47,360
loudest you know this

3053
01:47:50,390 --> 01:47:49,119
this is this is old school for me this

3054
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:50,400
is old hat for me

3055
01:47:55,350 --> 01:47:53,520
you know defending myself you know no

3056
01:47:56,790 --> 01:47:55,360
no worries there but let me run through

3057
01:47:59,510 --> 01:47:56,800
a list of uh

3058
01:48:00,229 --> 01:47:59,520
narcissistic personality disorder traits

3059
01:48:03,189 --> 01:48:00,239
and uh

3060
01:48:05,350 --> 01:48:03,199
let's uh they basically all apply to her

3061
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:05,360
insults their target very often then lie

3062
01:48:08,390 --> 01:48:06,719
when confronted about it

3063
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:08,400
when confronted with their behavior they

3064
01:48:10,390 --> 01:48:09,920
pretend to be innocent and play the

3065
01:48:12,310 --> 01:48:10,400
victim

3066
01:48:13,669 --> 01:48:12,320
oh that's absolutely her she started all

3067
01:48:15,350 --> 01:48:13,679
this i didn't you know

3068
01:48:16,709 --> 01:48:15,360
i couldn't give two about her to

3069
01:48:19,189 --> 01:48:16,719
be honest with you until now

3070
01:48:20,709 --> 01:48:19,199
but again she went over the line and uh

3071
01:48:22,550 --> 01:48:20,719
that was her mistake so

3072
01:48:24,550 --> 01:48:22,560
everything is always somebody else's

3073
01:48:26,470 --> 01:48:24,560
fault even when it's obviously not

3074
01:48:27,910 --> 01:48:26,480
uh they always have a justification for

3075
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:27,920
every bad thing they do they think

3076
01:48:30,709 --> 01:48:29,040
they're always right

3077
01:48:32,229 --> 01:48:30,719
uh very controlling to tell you how to

3078
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:32,239
live

3079
01:48:35,669 --> 01:48:34,880
a very hypocritical absolutely she was

3080
01:48:37,510 --> 01:48:35,679
running around

3081
01:48:38,870 --> 01:48:37,520
when chase was ignoring her during that

3082
01:48:41,350 --> 01:48:38,880
her insult period

3083
01:48:42,790 --> 01:48:41,360
you know oh why didn't she answer these

3084
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:42,800
questions why didn't she answer these

3085
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:43,360
questions

3086
01:48:47,030 --> 01:48:45,199
she's not doing that now she's blocking

3087
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:47,040
people who are ready to come over

3088
01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:49,520
and answer those questions very

3089
01:48:52,550 --> 01:48:50,480
hypocritical

3090
01:48:55,030 --> 01:48:52,560
we're an open book here no worries no

3091
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:55,040
worries they accuse you of doing to them

3092
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:57,280
what they do to you it's called

3093
01:49:00,950 --> 01:48:58,159
projection

3094
01:49:02,709 --> 01:49:00,960
absolutely uh portraying themselves as

3095
01:49:03,990 --> 01:49:02,719
angels outside when they're actually

3096
01:49:06,790 --> 01:49:04,000
demons

3097
01:49:07,830 --> 01:49:06,800
with their targets uh suddenly uh lead a

3098
01:49:09,189 --> 01:49:07,840
smear campaign

3099
01:49:10,950 --> 01:49:09,199
well i don't know how much subtlety

3100
01:49:11,990 --> 01:49:10,960
there is about it anymore the cat's out

3101
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:12,000
of the bag

3102
01:49:15,430 --> 01:49:14,000
you know it's uh it's it's all out now

3103
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:15,440
so it's no big deal

3104
01:49:18,470 --> 01:49:17,280
against their target so they isolate it

3105
01:49:19,910 --> 01:49:18,480
make sure they don't get help

3106
01:49:22,229 --> 01:49:19,920
well they're going to try but uh we've

3107
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:22,239
got uh we we've got our sheriff

3108
01:49:26,229 --> 01:49:24,480
i i'm much happier with the people who

3109
01:49:28,470 --> 01:49:26,239
uh and would side with the people

3110
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:28,480
who we've worked with and we've talked

3111
01:49:33,430 --> 01:49:30,000
with and we've dealt with

3112
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,440
than the liars and frauds like ben moss

3113
01:49:36,390 --> 01:49:35,199
and ray stanford that she's been dealing

3114
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:36,400
with for years and years

3115
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:38,159
they pretend to be victims they blame

3116
01:49:41,270 --> 01:49:39,920
their target for their own behavior

3117
01:49:43,189 --> 01:49:41,280
they are incredibly arrogant and

3118
01:49:44,229 --> 01:49:43,199
sadistic they see the target as weak and

3119
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:44,239
deserving to suffer

3120
01:49:49,350 --> 01:49:47,520
well guess what we're not weak and uh

3121
01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:49,360
we're not suffering i i think what uh

3122
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:51,280
she i think the fact that she posted my

3123
01:49:55,669 --> 01:49:53,040
mug shot is hilarious really

3124
01:49:56,070 --> 01:49:55,679
uh and uh they i think they are models

3125
01:49:57,990 --> 01:49:56,080
to be

3126
01:49:59,830 --> 01:49:58,000
followed so you know like i said we're

3127
01:50:02,390 --> 01:49:59,840
going to deconstruct anything

3128
01:50:03,430 --> 01:50:02,400
again i did her show a year ago i went

3129
01:50:05,990 --> 01:50:03,440
on there to debate

3130
01:50:06,629 --> 01:50:06,000
the socorro case with the the liar ben

3131
01:50:09,109 --> 01:50:06,639
moss

3132
01:50:10,790 --> 01:50:09,119
and it was a hilarious victory basically

3133
01:50:11,750 --> 01:50:10,800
two on one very unprofessional for

3134
01:50:13,830 --> 01:50:11,760
america

3135
01:50:16,070 --> 01:50:13,840
she was not at all an impartial

3136
01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:16,080
moderator she basically took moss aside

3137
01:50:19,189 --> 01:50:16,800
the whole time

3138
01:50:20,629 --> 01:50:19,199
and still got her ass kicked and melted

3139
01:50:23,189 --> 01:50:20,639
down at the end of the show

3140
01:50:24,470 --> 01:50:23,199
moss too mustard meltdown but erica did

3141
01:50:27,109 --> 01:50:24,480
at the end of the show

3142
01:50:28,070 --> 01:50:27,119
and uh you know it made a fool of

3143
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:28,080
herself basically

3144
01:50:33,189 --> 01:50:31,040
she still left it up uh i don't know if

3145
01:50:35,750 --> 01:50:33,199
i'll read the transcript from

3146
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:35,760
that show or play the actual tape i'll

3147
01:50:38,709 --> 01:50:37,199
probably read the transcript because i

3148
01:50:40,310 --> 01:50:38,719
don't want to run into any copyright

3149
01:50:42,229 --> 01:50:40,320
issues but i'll definitely

3150
01:50:44,070 --> 01:50:42,239
be able to get hold of the rights to run

3151
01:50:46,229 --> 01:50:44,080
some of moss's presentations where he

3152
01:50:49,270 --> 01:50:46,239
openly lies about the socorro case

3153
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:49,280
no worries there uh and uh yeah i mean

3154
01:50:52,390 --> 01:50:50,159
uh

3155
01:50:53,589 --> 01:50:52,400
brown is kind of a non-entity doesn't

3156
01:50:56,709 --> 01:50:53,599
really have anything

3157
01:50:59,270 --> 01:50:56,719
but he's got his list of uh cgi

3158
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:59,280
youtube websites and his brother's lawn

3159
01:51:02,390 --> 01:51:00,800
so he's got that going for him

3160
01:51:04,390 --> 01:51:02,400
but uh he's obviously over in that

3161
01:51:04,870 --> 01:51:04,400
department and uh we'll see we'll see

3162
01:51:08,149 --> 01:51:04,880
who

3163
01:51:11,109 --> 01:51:08,159
to defend

3164
01:51:12,550 --> 01:51:11,119
this toxic narcissistic personality

3165
01:51:15,109 --> 01:51:12,560
disordered individual

3166
01:51:16,390 --> 01:51:15,119
as we go forward so there we go yeah i'm

3167
01:51:16,870 --> 01:51:16,400
glad you brought it up and thank you

3168
01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,880
also

3169
01:51:19,990 --> 01:51:18,560
uh for mentioning the social media hate

3170
01:51:23,589 --> 01:51:20,000
campaigns that

3171
01:51:25,030 --> 01:51:23,599
scott brown melissa kennedy erica luke's

3172
01:51:27,750 --> 01:51:25,040
you know that we had this opportunity

3173
01:51:29,430 --> 01:51:27,760
mentioned to the ufo community

3174
01:51:31,510 --> 01:51:29,440
that folks like this are actually

3175
01:51:33,589 --> 01:51:31,520
perpetrating upon us

3176
01:51:35,830 --> 01:51:33,599
again i i'm not asking to answer this

3177
01:51:37,750 --> 01:51:35,840
necessarily but for what

3178
01:51:39,189 --> 01:51:37,760
for to what end because because we

3179
01:51:40,229 --> 01:51:39,199
interview uh because we interviewed

3180
01:51:42,629 --> 01:51:40,239
chase klutzke

3181
01:51:44,390 --> 01:51:42,639
and frankly going in you know i i really

3182
01:51:44,790 --> 01:51:44,400
didn't know that she had an issue with

3183
01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:44,800
uh

3184
01:51:50,950 --> 01:51:48,320
but when she mentioned those names oh

3185
01:51:52,709 --> 01:51:50,960
yeah yeah okay and i don't i don't even

3186
01:51:54,229 --> 01:51:52,719
remember how much detail we went into it

3187
01:51:55,910 --> 01:51:54,239
but that's where all this started this

3188
01:51:56,229 --> 01:51:55,920
all this all started from that because

3189
01:52:00,149 --> 01:51:56,239
we

3190
01:52:03,109 --> 01:52:00,159
that was the beginning of this and

3191
01:52:03,589 --> 01:52:03,119
that's empirical like a more macro

3192
01:52:07,030 --> 01:52:03,599
manner

3193
01:52:07,589 --> 01:52:07,040
like you know philosophically to what

3194
01:52:09,750 --> 01:52:07,599
end

3195
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:09,760
it's not proving anything you know let's

3196
01:52:15,510 --> 01:52:12,480
just say i have duis

3197
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:15,520
hypothetically uh so what

3198
01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:18,000
what is that going to do for anybody in

3199
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:19,760
the ufology community nothing

3200
01:52:23,830 --> 01:52:22,400
i know a lot of people in the ufo

3201
01:52:27,030 --> 01:52:23,840
community

3202
01:52:29,270 --> 01:52:27,040
that have dui's traffic

3203
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:29,280
citations president george yeah

3204
01:52:32,070 --> 01:52:30,960
president george bush was elected

3205
01:52:34,229 --> 01:52:32,080
president after

3206
01:52:36,390 --> 01:52:34,239
it became public he had been uh busting

3207
01:52:37,270 --> 01:52:36,400
for a dui and dick cheney was busted for

3208
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:37,280
two of them

3209
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:39,360
like you said it's easy to be in a

3210
01:52:42,550 --> 01:52:40,320
position where

3211
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:42,560
let me put it this way not necessarily

3212
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:43,440
easy let me

3213
01:52:48,070 --> 01:52:46,320
let me just restate that anyone can be

3214
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:48,080
in a position to suddenly find

3215
01:52:51,030 --> 01:52:48,800
themselves

3216
01:52:53,270 --> 01:52:51,040
being arrested for whatever reason you

3217
01:52:54,790 --> 01:52:53,280
can take that as you wish

3218
01:52:56,310 --> 01:52:54,800
uh and i'm just saying that in the most

3219
01:52:57,910 --> 01:52:56,320
general way possible

3220
01:52:59,589 --> 01:52:57,920
that there are situations that that

3221
01:53:01,750 --> 01:52:59,599
could occur now

3222
01:53:03,189 --> 01:53:01,760
does it mean you're guilty no will you

3223
01:53:05,510 --> 01:53:03,199
get a mug shot out of that

3224
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:05,520
yes that they give that to you for free

3225
01:53:08,470 --> 01:53:06,400
so

3226
01:53:10,550 --> 01:53:08,480
yeah and and the sites that and the

3227
01:53:13,189 --> 01:53:10,560
sites that post those are basically

3228
01:53:14,790 --> 01:53:13,199
a form of extortion because you can

3229
01:53:15,510 --> 01:53:14,800
spend money and get them removed i could

3230
01:53:17,750 --> 01:53:15,520
have done that i

3231
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:17,760
i don't care about it and you know like

3232
01:53:21,030 --> 01:53:19,199
so what it's out there you know

3233
01:53:22,390 --> 01:53:21,040
it's never hurt me in any way i don't

3234
01:53:23,270 --> 01:53:22,400
like the fact that it's out there but

3235
01:53:25,750 --> 01:53:23,280
it's out there

3236
01:53:27,669 --> 01:53:25,760
so you know it what are you going to do

3237
01:53:28,950 --> 01:53:27,679
and again i was kind of surprised nobody

3238
01:53:31,589 --> 01:53:28,960
found it sooner but uh

3239
01:53:33,270 --> 01:53:31,599
you know what are you going to do but it

3240
01:53:35,430 --> 01:53:33,280
doesn't upset me it just

3241
01:53:37,589 --> 01:53:35,440
indicates the kind of low-class scum

3242
01:53:39,750 --> 01:53:37,599
that erica luke's really is

3243
01:53:41,270 --> 01:53:39,760
yeah and also want to mention to folks

3244
01:53:42,550 --> 01:53:41,280
and i know frank that this is not

3245
01:53:44,310 --> 01:53:42,560
necessarily anything you're concerned

3246
01:53:45,669 --> 01:53:44,320
about but i wanted to mention that

3247
01:53:48,470 --> 01:53:45,679
social media

3248
01:53:49,030 --> 01:53:48,480
hate campaigns like the one that erica

3249
01:53:51,270 --> 01:53:49,040
uh

3250
01:53:52,790 --> 01:53:51,280
scott brown and others in the ufo

3251
01:53:55,830 --> 01:53:52,800
community are currently

3252
01:53:58,550 --> 01:53:55,840
active in instead of ufology

3253
01:53:59,030 --> 01:53:58,560
the actual topic that they claim to be

3254
01:54:01,750 --> 01:53:59,040
so

3255
01:54:03,510 --> 01:54:01,760
immersed in uh can actually get to the

3256
01:54:05,669 --> 01:54:03,520
point where they're illegal

3257
01:54:07,990 --> 01:54:05,679
uh it's illegal activity because

3258
01:54:10,950 --> 01:54:08,000
bullying harassment

3259
01:54:11,750 --> 01:54:10,960
and getting folks involved in social

3260
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:11,760
threats

3261
01:54:18,070 --> 01:54:14,880
um uh under the name of

3262
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:18,080
ufology uh can uh

3263
01:54:21,669 --> 01:54:21,040
earn that person time time like real

3264
01:54:24,070 --> 01:54:21,679
hardcore

3265
01:54:24,950 --> 01:54:24,080
time or charges against them now like i

3266
01:54:26,629 --> 01:54:24,960
said not saying

3267
01:54:28,149 --> 01:54:26,639
you're concerned about that but i'm

3268
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:28,159
bringing that up as a topic

3269
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:30,880
i think that social media hate campaigns

3270
01:54:33,510 --> 01:54:31,360
can be

3271
01:54:34,629 --> 01:54:33,520
very dangerous and we've seen the likes

3272
01:54:37,030 --> 01:54:34,639
of those before

3273
01:54:38,310 --> 01:54:37,040
and the kinds of things that can occur

3274
01:54:40,709 --> 01:54:38,320
to people in the end

3275
01:54:41,830 --> 01:54:40,719
so that's not good i just wanted to say

3276
01:54:43,669 --> 01:54:41,840
that i think that's something that

3277
01:54:46,229 --> 01:54:43,679
everybody should be very wary

3278
01:54:48,310 --> 01:54:46,239
of when they come across posts like what

3279
01:54:49,350 --> 01:54:48,320
erica did to me what erica did to you

3280
01:54:51,750 --> 01:54:49,360
things like that

3281
01:54:53,350 --> 01:54:51,760
yeah yeah well we'll try to do it but uh

3282
01:54:54,149 --> 01:54:53,360
yeah i don't consider what they're doing

3283
01:54:55,669 --> 01:54:54,159
bullying

3284
01:54:57,189 --> 01:54:55,679
you know they're they're using uh the

3285
01:55:00,229 --> 01:54:57,199
material that they've got

3286
01:55:01,510 --> 01:55:00,239
to uh to try to attack us but uh you

3287
01:55:02,149 --> 01:55:01,520
know i don't feel it's bullying i don't

3288
01:55:04,390 --> 01:55:02,159
feel like

3289
01:55:06,310 --> 01:55:04,400
any they will claim that our response is

3290
01:55:07,109 --> 01:55:06,320
bullying but it's not you know it's just

3291
01:55:08,709 --> 01:55:07,119
payback and

3292
01:55:10,229 --> 01:55:08,719
you know what they say about payback it

3293
01:55:13,109 --> 01:55:10,239
is a

3294
01:55:13,510 --> 01:55:13,119
so get ready for it it's coming fair

3295
01:55:15,030 --> 01:55:13,520
enough

3296
01:55:17,189 --> 01:55:15,040
i appreciate your prayers yeah i got a

3297
01:55:18,229 --> 01:55:17,199
whole week to uh dig deeper i mean off

3298
01:55:20,070 --> 01:55:18,239
the top of my head i

3299
01:55:21,270 --> 01:55:20,080
uh we we we talked a lot about it but

3300
01:55:22,629 --> 01:55:21,280
we'll go through it we'll back up

3301
01:55:25,189 --> 01:55:22,639
everything we're saying we've gotta

3302
01:55:27,669 --> 01:55:25,199
we've gotta have it i think her i think

3303
01:55:29,350 --> 01:55:27,679
her feeling that she was provoked by my

3304
01:55:31,350 --> 01:55:29,360
bringing up that she needed to actually

3305
01:55:34,950 --> 01:55:31,360
check her sources for an article

3306
01:55:38,390 --> 01:55:34,960
like contact chase klutzky to see

3307
01:55:39,750 --> 01:55:38,400
hey chase why did you step down from the

3308
01:55:43,270 --> 01:55:39,760
second in command

3309
01:55:45,430 --> 01:55:43,280
position of mufon um and also

3310
01:55:47,430 --> 01:55:45,440
let's make it clear she did not resign

3311
01:55:49,910 --> 01:55:47,440
for move on either she's still there

3312
01:55:51,189 --> 01:55:49,920
after i think 22 years or more of being

3313
01:55:53,589 --> 01:55:51,199
involved with mufon

3314
01:55:54,550 --> 01:55:53,599
i you know when a person writes

3315
01:55:56,470 --> 01:55:54,560
something it's

3316
01:55:57,589 --> 01:55:56,480
out there it's online it's basically

3317
01:55:59,830 --> 01:55:57,599
forever

3318
01:56:01,669 --> 01:55:59,840
so so even if you delete it somebody

3319
01:56:03,589 --> 01:56:01,679
else has that information even if

3320
01:56:05,750 --> 01:56:03,599
it's bots out there gathering the

3321
01:56:08,310 --> 01:56:05,760
information wanted to say that

3322
01:56:09,510 --> 01:56:08,320
as soon as i said that on the program uh

3323
01:56:11,830 --> 01:56:09,520
for some reason

3324
01:56:13,109 --> 01:56:11,840
i guess that got under her skin i can

3325
01:56:15,189 --> 01:56:13,119
tell you this

3326
01:56:16,550 --> 01:56:15,199
people make mistakes in journalism

3327
01:56:18,470 --> 01:56:16,560
sometimes they might forget to give

3328
01:56:21,030 --> 01:56:18,480
somebody credit for an article

3329
01:56:22,310 --> 01:56:21,040
that is not uh something to hang

3330
01:56:25,189 --> 01:56:22,320
somebody over

3331
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:25,199
but when you're trying to say that

3332
01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:28,480
someone's entire career is based on uh

3333
01:56:33,910 --> 01:56:31,840
allegations of misconduct and that's

3334
01:56:36,149 --> 01:56:33,920
just not fair to that person that has

3335
01:56:39,510 --> 01:56:36,159
spent a couple decades or more

3336
01:56:43,669 --> 01:56:39,520
of their basically their uh

3337
01:56:46,950 --> 01:56:43,679
heart sweat and blood type of effort

3338
01:56:50,030 --> 01:56:46,960
to say something like that it's just uh

3339
01:56:53,510 --> 01:56:50,040
it's not only unforgivable it's

3340
01:56:55,109 --> 01:56:53,520
unnecessary we'll be ready to go

3341
01:56:56,629 --> 01:56:55,119
that's all i can say so next sunday

3342
01:56:58,950 --> 01:56:56,639
we'll do that

3343
01:57:01,109 --> 01:56:58,960
yes okay yeah that'll give us enough

3344
01:57:04,070 --> 01:57:01,119
time to put all our ducks in a row

3345
01:57:05,990 --> 01:57:04,080
and uh really uh break down the uh

3346
01:57:09,189 --> 01:57:06,000
frankly uh low character

3347
01:57:10,870 --> 01:57:09,199
uh low integrity uh dishonesty

3348
01:57:12,950 --> 01:57:10,880
that has been going on with those with

3349
01:57:14,629 --> 01:57:12,960
those folks uh again you know

3350
01:57:16,629 --> 01:57:14,639
i asked dave scott if he would uh

3351
01:57:17,109 --> 01:57:16,639
moderate a debate this this goes back a

3352
01:57:19,189 --> 01:57:17,119
ways

3353
01:57:21,990 --> 01:57:19,199
so i was already uh starting to get a

3354
01:57:23,910 --> 01:57:22,000
little bit steamed about this uh

3355
01:57:25,510 --> 01:57:23,920
a while back but uh you know now that

3356
01:57:28,229 --> 01:57:25,520
the gloves are off the gloves are off

3357
01:57:29,030 --> 01:57:28,239
gloves are off so you know yeah i agree

3358
01:57:31,430 --> 01:57:29,040
with you on that

3359
01:57:32,390 --> 01:57:31,440
so there we go all right so uh yeah uh

3360
01:57:35,510 --> 01:57:32,400
wednesday night

3361
01:57:36,870 --> 01:57:35,520
alejandro rojas and then uh sunday night

3362
01:57:40,470 --> 01:57:36,880
we will uh or

3363
01:57:42,950 --> 01:57:40,480
next sunday uh we will be back and uh

3364
01:57:44,229 --> 01:57:42,960
we will do this thing we will do it uh

3365
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:44,239
go into detail and

3366
01:57:47,270 --> 01:57:45,760
again that back up everything that we're

3367
01:57:49,350 --> 01:57:47,280
saying uh with uh

3368
01:57:50,790 --> 01:57:49,360
documentation that just like uh we do

3369
01:57:53,109 --> 01:57:50,800
everything else we do

3370
01:57:55,109 --> 01:57:53,119
so we're good to go i want to make it

3371
01:57:56,070 --> 01:57:55,119
clear that when you said that you wanted

3372
01:57:58,390 --> 01:57:56,080
you were going to

3373
01:58:00,310 --> 01:57:58,400
you know tear her apart and go after her

3374
01:58:01,910 --> 01:58:00,320
that you meant that in a metaphorical

3375
01:58:03,750 --> 01:58:01,920
manner only

3376
01:58:05,030 --> 01:58:03,760
yeah yeah she lives in utah i'm not

3377
01:58:07,270 --> 01:58:05,040
going to drive out what am i going to do

3378
01:58:10,470 --> 01:58:07,280
drive out to utah and bang on the door

3379
01:58:11,109 --> 01:58:10,480
by the way regarding driving i did want

3380
01:58:14,390 --> 01:58:11,119
to mention

3381
01:58:15,030 --> 01:58:14,400
i am tired of hearing her talk about how

3382
01:58:19,589 --> 01:58:15,040
she spent

3383
01:58:22,310 --> 01:58:19,599
1200 to put in her vehicle to go

3384
01:58:22,709 --> 01:58:22,320
to pick up some ufo-related stuff that

3385
01:58:24,870 --> 01:58:22,719
was

3386
01:58:25,990 --> 01:58:24,880
promised to her that she did not get

3387
01:58:27,910 --> 01:58:26,000
when it turns out

3388
01:58:29,910 --> 01:58:27,920
her car needed that kind of money put

3389
01:58:32,950 --> 01:58:29,920
into it to work

3390
01:58:34,070 --> 01:58:32,960
anyway yeah well yeah and there's that

3391
01:58:35,030 --> 01:58:34,080
and it's like you know if you wanted

3392
01:58:38,070 --> 01:58:35,040
this stuff so bad

3393
01:58:42,870 --> 01:58:38,080
why don't you just rent a car i know

3394
01:58:47,189 --> 01:58:45,189
look i drive i freely admit i drive a

3395
01:58:48,149 --> 01:58:47,199
piece of crap i live two miles from my

3396
01:58:49,910 --> 01:58:48,159
office

3397
01:58:52,070 --> 01:58:49,920
you know it makes no economic sense to

3398
01:58:53,750 --> 01:58:52,080
have a uh you know a thirty thousand

3399
01:58:55,750 --> 01:58:53,760
dollar car and making payments on it

3400
01:58:58,470 --> 01:58:55,760
makes no sense at all to do that

3401
01:58:59,430 --> 01:58:58,480
none whatsoever so you know uh if for

3402
01:59:01,669 --> 01:58:59,440
whatever reason

3403
01:59:03,030 --> 01:59:01,679
i ever needed to drive at a great long

3404
01:59:03,589 --> 01:59:03,040
distance and it doesn't come up that

3405
01:59:07,750 --> 01:59:03,599
much

3406
01:59:11,189 --> 01:59:09,430
well for the day it's like what fifty

3407
01:59:13,030 --> 01:59:11,199
bucks if something's like

3408
01:59:14,870 --> 01:59:13,040
somebody has dropped twelve hundred

3409
01:59:17,830 --> 01:59:14,880
dollars into their vehicle

3410
01:59:19,830 --> 01:59:17,840
to go out of state to pick up some ufo

3411
01:59:22,470 --> 01:59:19,840
related stuff

3412
01:59:25,030 --> 01:59:22,480
whether they you know get it or not what

3413
01:59:27,350 --> 01:59:25,040
does that tell you about their car

3414
01:59:31,350 --> 01:59:27,360
it's not about you apology it's about

3415
01:59:33,109 --> 01:59:31,360
the car okay

3416
01:59:34,390 --> 01:59:33,119
so you know you got 1200 worth of

3417
01:59:37,510 --> 01:59:34,400
repairs but

3418
01:59:39,109 --> 01:59:37,520
she made a post dedicated to how on

3419
01:59:41,910 --> 01:59:39,119
and on the international director of

3420
01:59:44,390 --> 01:59:41,920
move fund somehow was to blame

3421
01:59:45,189 --> 01:59:44,400
for i don't i'm not sure what but it was

3422
01:59:47,910 --> 01:59:45,199
basically

3423
01:59:49,350 --> 01:59:47,920
a twelve hundred dollar uh put money

3424
01:59:53,510 --> 01:59:49,360
into car post

3425
01:59:55,350 --> 01:59:53,520
slash uh blaming the director of mufon

3426
01:59:57,589 --> 01:59:55,360
uh international director of mufon for

3427
01:59:59,669 --> 01:59:57,599
her not getting those documents

3428
02:00:02,229 --> 01:59:59,679
when it had nothing to do with like

3429
02:00:04,390 --> 02:00:02,239
literally zero percent to do with him

3430
02:00:05,510 --> 02:00:04,400
it had to do with the individual that

3431
02:00:07,109 --> 02:00:05,520
made the claim

3432
02:00:09,669 --> 02:00:07,119
they were going to give her these

3433
02:00:11,990 --> 02:00:09,679
supposed you know these documents

3434
02:00:12,790 --> 02:00:12,000
and it turns out they just made an about

3435
02:00:16,149 --> 02:00:12,800
face

3436
02:00:16,709 --> 02:00:16,159
and change your mind who knows it could

3437
02:00:19,189 --> 02:00:16,719
be because

3438
02:00:20,470 --> 02:00:19,199
they didn't like how she treats people

3439
02:00:22,950 --> 02:00:20,480
in the ufo community

3440
02:00:24,149 --> 02:00:22,960
it could be connected to that we just

3441
02:00:26,149 --> 02:00:24,159
don't know

3442
02:00:27,669 --> 02:00:26,159
but the thing is is they change your

3443
02:00:31,750 --> 02:00:27,679
mind but she ran it

3444
02:00:34,629 --> 02:00:31,760
of course her mmo is to blame everybody

3445
02:00:36,790 --> 02:00:34,639
instead of owning up to her own issues

3446
02:00:38,950 --> 02:00:36,800
and saying hey my car needed the money

3447
02:00:40,870 --> 02:00:38,960
hey that person decide change their mind

3448
02:00:42,870 --> 02:00:40,880
they have the free will to do so nope

3449
02:00:44,550 --> 02:00:42,880
i'm gonna blame the international

3450
02:00:47,030 --> 02:00:44,560
director of mufon for that

3451
02:00:48,629 --> 02:00:47,040
how she made that connection uh is

3452
02:00:53,510 --> 02:00:48,639
laughable

3453
02:00:54,950 --> 02:00:53,520
i know well yeah we're gonna

3454
02:00:57,030 --> 02:00:54,960
i think we've already spent the better

3455
02:00:57,430 --> 02:00:57,040
part of 45 minutes talking about this we

3456
02:01:01,350 --> 02:00:57,440
uh

3457
02:01:03,350 --> 02:01:01,360
our ducks in a row we want to have our

3458
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:03,360
evidence so we want to go back and

3459
02:01:06,629 --> 02:01:05,360
uh forensically go through that there

3460
02:01:08,550 --> 02:01:06,639
have been a lot of articles about her

3461
02:01:09,830 --> 02:01:08,560
over the years in her toxic behavior

3462
02:01:11,270 --> 02:01:09,840
so we're going to go through all those

3463
02:01:12,390 --> 02:01:11,280
we're going to go through my experience

3464
02:01:14,470 --> 02:01:12,400
being on a show

3465
02:01:15,510 --> 02:01:14,480
with either uh i'll have to make up my

3466
02:01:17,109 --> 02:01:15,520
mind i'm not sure

3467
02:01:19,109 --> 02:01:17,119
i don't want to run into any copyright

3468
02:01:20,709 --> 02:01:19,119
issues but i can at least

3469
02:01:22,229 --> 02:01:20,719
get hold of transcripts of the show

3470
02:01:24,070 --> 02:01:22,239
itself when i did her show

3471
02:01:25,750 --> 02:01:24,080
and she had her epic meltdown like a

3472
02:01:26,229 --> 02:01:25,760
five-year-old child at the end of the

3473
02:01:27,910 --> 02:01:26,239
show

3474
02:01:29,270 --> 02:01:27,920
because basically i whipped them both in

3475
02:01:34,229 --> 02:01:29,280
terms of that

3476
02:01:37,350 --> 02:01:35,589
we'll have it together we'll be ready to

3477
02:01:39,270 --> 02:01:37,360
go we're always ready to go we'll be

3478
02:01:41,189 --> 02:01:39,280
ready to go

3479
02:01:42,870 --> 02:01:41,199
right and so i'm just really glad we

3480
02:01:44,229 --> 02:01:42,880
were able to give a you know a little

3481
02:01:45,669 --> 02:01:44,239
bit of insight regarding

3482
02:01:48,149 --> 02:01:45,679
what we're going to talk about that

3483
02:01:48,790 --> 02:01:48,159
sunday um i just think it's really

3484
02:01:51,350 --> 02:01:48,800
important

3485
02:01:53,510 --> 02:01:51,360
that you brought it up because the ufo

3486
02:01:56,310 --> 02:01:53,520
community needs to finally understand

3487
02:01:57,270 --> 02:01:56,320
why are they seeing these posts on us

3488
02:02:07,510 --> 02:01:57,280
that

3489
02:02:10,709 --> 02:02:07,520
me which ended up becoming an

3490
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:10,719
empty post because uh folks involved

3491
02:02:12,950 --> 02:02:11,040
with

3492
02:02:15,109 --> 02:02:12,960
allowing the post had to take it down

3493
02:02:16,709 --> 02:02:15,119
immediately and not only because they

3494
02:02:19,910 --> 02:02:16,719
agreed with me

3495
02:02:22,070 --> 02:02:19,920
that the veracity of what she uh that

3496
02:02:26,790 --> 02:02:22,080
crazy person posted about me was

3497
02:02:29,750 --> 02:02:26,800
absolutely off the map but then um

3498
02:02:30,709 --> 02:02:29,760
because it's just not fair to do that to

3499
02:02:33,750 --> 02:02:30,719
a person

3500
02:02:35,589 --> 02:02:33,760
uh anybody regarding stating terrible

3501
02:02:37,510 --> 02:02:35,599
things about them that are not true

3502
02:02:39,189 --> 02:02:37,520
and then putting their entire reputation

3503
02:02:41,669 --> 02:02:39,199
at risk

3504
02:02:43,589 --> 02:02:41,679
and not having any uh what do you call

3505
02:02:50,149 --> 02:02:43,599
it

3506
02:02:52,950 --> 02:02:50,159
people are saying whatever they want and

3507
02:02:56,149 --> 02:02:52,960
posting it wherever they want

3508
02:02:58,070 --> 02:02:56,159
erica took up that post reposted it

3509
02:02:59,510 --> 02:02:58,080
and it's an empty post now my

3510
02:03:01,109 --> 02:02:59,520
understanding through the grapevine is

3511
02:03:02,390 --> 02:03:01,119
she had to take that post down or she

3512
02:03:04,070 --> 02:03:02,400
did take that poster yeah she took it

3513
02:03:05,109 --> 02:03:04,080
down she took it okay well and there's a

3514
02:03:07,430 --> 02:03:05,119
reason for that

3515
02:03:09,030 --> 02:03:07,440
because of the legal implications of

3516
02:03:11,910 --> 02:03:09,040
that original post

3517
02:03:16,870 --> 02:03:11,920
and that is there was nothing true in

3518
02:03:19,990 --> 02:03:18,629
there you go it's just so reckless what

3519
02:03:21,990 --> 02:03:20,000
what's going on it just well

3520
02:03:24,709 --> 02:03:22,000
actually yeah there is a lot of added uh

3521
02:03:26,470 --> 02:03:24,719
latitude that technically yeah we're all

3522
02:03:27,910 --> 02:03:26,480
limited public figures in terms of this

3523
02:03:30,470 --> 02:03:27,920
ufo stuff so yes

3524
02:03:30,950 --> 02:03:30,480
extremely limited you know it's not like

3525
02:03:34,229 --> 02:03:30,960
i'm

3526
02:03:36,310 --> 02:03:34,239
at that level

3527
02:03:37,430 --> 02:03:36,320
i'm just basically i just want to say

3528
02:03:42,070 --> 02:03:37,440
this i

3529
02:03:44,950 --> 02:03:42,080
am just a person who is a ufo buff

3530
02:03:45,589 --> 02:03:44,960
who loves to cover the topic of ufology

3531
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:45,599
and other

3532
02:03:53,270 --> 02:03:49,840
phenomena now if you want to post

3533
02:03:55,990 --> 02:03:53,280
mugshots and fake

3534
02:03:57,990 --> 02:03:56,000
articles about us i don't find that

3535
02:04:01,109 --> 02:03:58,000
acceptable

3536
02:04:01,589 --> 02:04:01,119
but uh if you're gonna do it just know i

3537
02:04:04,550 --> 02:04:01,599
will

3538
02:04:05,510 --> 02:04:04,560
absolutely defend myself and i'll be

3539
02:04:10,950 --> 02:04:05,520
more than happy

3540
02:04:13,589 --> 02:04:10,960
to talk to erica anytime anywhere

3541
02:04:14,950 --> 02:04:13,599
there you go there you go he won't do it

3542
02:04:15,589 --> 02:04:14,960
he won't do it just like scott brown

3543
02:04:17,669 --> 02:04:15,599
won't do it

3544
02:04:19,189 --> 02:04:17,679
you know and just like uh you know moss

3545
02:04:21,510 --> 02:04:19,199
doesn't want to have another go at me

3546
02:04:23,030 --> 02:04:21,520
and uh about the socorro case because

3547
02:04:23,990 --> 02:04:23,040
frankly uh when i was on that show i

3548
02:04:26,950 --> 02:04:24,000
took it pretty easy with

3549
02:04:28,629 --> 02:04:26,960
him you know i i knew from uh video

3550
02:04:30,310 --> 02:04:28,639
presentations he's done at various

3551
02:04:32,709 --> 02:04:30,320
conferences and whatnot how

3552
02:04:33,589 --> 02:04:32,719
uh he lies about the case exaggerated

3553
02:04:36,310 --> 02:04:33,599
what uh

3554
02:04:36,629 --> 02:04:36,320
officer zamora said that he saw and just

3555
02:04:39,189 --> 02:04:36,639
just

3556
02:04:41,430 --> 02:04:39,199
lies you know uh the there's no other

3557
02:04:43,350 --> 02:04:41,440
way of putting it he's an absolute liar

3558
02:04:45,430 --> 02:04:43,360
and uh but you know you learned from ray

3559
02:04:48,790 --> 02:04:45,440
stanford so what are you going to do the

3560
02:04:49,830 --> 02:04:48,800
uh the channeling ufo detecting peddling

3561
02:04:52,870 --> 02:04:49,840
ray stanford

3562
02:04:53,750 --> 02:04:52,880
uh another a real winner but he he you

3563
02:04:55,669 --> 02:04:53,760
know i guess uh

3564
02:04:57,030 --> 02:04:55,679
he's older now we'll probably sit on the

3565
02:04:57,430 --> 02:04:57,040
sidelines i've challenged him to a

3566
02:05:00,229 --> 02:04:57,440
debate

3567
02:05:01,030 --> 02:05:00,239
a bunch of times he won't do it and uh

3568
02:05:02,870 --> 02:05:01,040
you know i'm not

3569
02:05:04,149 --> 02:05:02,880
not concerned about that but uh yeah i'm

3570
02:05:05,830 --> 02:05:04,159
ready to go for next week

3571
02:05:07,189 --> 02:05:05,840
we might have given too much away but

3572
02:05:08,550 --> 02:05:07,199
like i said we'll

3573
02:05:09,750 --> 02:05:08,560
have a little bit more time we'll be

3574
02:05:10,709 --> 02:05:09,760
able to back up everything that we've

3575
02:05:12,709 --> 02:05:10,719
got to say

3576
02:05:13,830 --> 02:05:12,719
uh trust me on that you can trust me on

3577
02:05:15,990 --> 02:05:13,840
that uh

3578
02:05:17,669 --> 02:05:16,000
when it comes to research into ufos uh

3579
02:05:21,109 --> 02:05:17,679
we both do a nice job

3580
02:05:22,709 --> 02:05:21,119
and uh now our uh research is uh going

3581
02:05:24,149 --> 02:05:22,719
to be changed in a different direction

3582
02:05:26,629 --> 02:05:24,159
at least for the next week

3583
02:05:28,870 --> 02:05:26,639
and uh it'll be fun it'll be fun because

3584
02:05:30,470 --> 02:05:28,880
uh you know i relish a good fight i do

3585
02:05:32,550 --> 02:05:30,480
it's been a long time so i played hockey

3586
02:05:34,470 --> 02:05:32,560
and uh you know uh

3587
02:05:36,149 --> 02:05:34,480
was uh knocking people around on the ice

3588
02:05:37,189 --> 02:05:36,159
so we'll do it metaphorically here next

3589
02:05:39,750 --> 02:05:37,199
week and i'm ready to go

3590
02:05:41,430 --> 02:05:39,760
well all right anything else one thing i

3591
02:05:43,750 --> 02:05:41,440
wanted to mention before you just sign

3592
02:05:46,229 --> 02:05:43,760
up which take me 30 seconds to say

3593
02:05:49,750 --> 02:05:46,239
that mentally deranged person who did

3594
02:05:51,109 --> 02:05:49,760
some crazy article or post on me um i

3595
02:05:52,550 --> 02:05:51,119
wanted to give a little bit of

3596
02:05:54,229 --> 02:05:52,560
background on that person

3597
02:05:56,069 --> 02:05:54,239
yeah i've actually hang on a sec let me

3598
02:05:57,589 --> 02:05:56,079
uh yeah let me uh she was

3599
02:05:59,990 --> 02:05:57,599
like trying to raise money somehow or

3600
02:06:00,870 --> 02:06:00,000
something let me uh i can actually talk

3601
02:06:03,669 --> 02:06:00,880
about that without

3602
02:06:04,310 --> 02:06:03,679
i can show it i've got it okay i've got

3603
02:06:06,709 --> 02:06:04,320
the image

3604
02:06:07,669 --> 02:06:06,719
it's got it it's like a pink uh looking

3605
02:06:10,149 --> 02:06:07,679
post

3606
02:06:12,709 --> 02:06:10,159
i know i got it i got it yeah okay well

3607
02:06:15,830 --> 02:06:12,719
i am real and need to know your

3608
02:06:17,030 --> 02:06:15,840
uh i'll post it okay yeah i'll just

3609
02:06:20,069 --> 02:06:17,040
start talking about it

3610
02:06:23,510 --> 02:06:20,079
and that is this person who has

3611
02:06:26,950 --> 02:06:23,520
24 different profiles and i mean

3612
02:06:30,149 --> 02:06:26,960
an ungodly amount of pages

3613
02:06:32,470 --> 02:06:30,159
regarding to her association which is

3614
02:06:34,390 --> 02:06:32,480
weird to me like this association if you

3615
02:06:37,589 --> 02:06:34,400
knew the history of it

3616
02:06:39,669 --> 02:06:37,599
anyway what this person did and by the

3617
02:06:41,510 --> 02:06:39,679
way this is not erica i'm talking about

3618
02:06:43,830 --> 02:06:41,520
this is the person where this started

3619
02:06:45,109 --> 02:06:43,840
this is erica's source on her attempt to

3620
02:06:48,229 --> 02:06:45,119
smear her source

3621
02:06:50,629 --> 02:06:48,239
um what what it was about is uh

3622
02:06:53,510 --> 02:06:50,639
again not erica but a different person

3623
02:06:57,669 --> 02:06:53,520
this mentally deranged individual

3624
02:07:01,350 --> 02:06:57,679
did a post basically asking no demanding

3625
02:07:04,790 --> 02:07:01,360
folks for money monthly

3626
02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:04,800
in the ufo community and i did a double

3627
02:07:09,350 --> 02:07:06,000
take when i saw it

3628
02:07:10,709 --> 02:07:09,360
and i i really was had a lot of concern

3629
02:07:13,589 --> 02:07:10,719
about it because

3630
02:07:16,069 --> 02:07:13,599
let's let's be clear here the ufo

3631
02:07:20,629 --> 02:07:16,079
community doesn't just encompass

3632
02:07:23,910 --> 02:07:20,639
kids to adults it also encompasses

3633
02:07:27,189 --> 02:07:23,920
elderly people people that are very

3634
02:07:29,270 --> 02:07:27,199
old and are dealing with alzheimer's and

3635
02:07:30,310 --> 02:07:29,280
issues that are very difficult to

3636
02:07:33,189 --> 02:07:30,320
grapple with

3637
02:07:35,270 --> 02:07:33,199
so when a person like this individual

3638
02:07:38,550 --> 02:07:35,280
has 24 different profiles

3639
02:07:41,270 --> 02:07:38,560
demands money from people monthly

3640
02:07:41,669 --> 02:07:41,280
monthly on a regular with no end in

3641
02:07:43,430 --> 02:07:41,679
sight

3642
02:07:45,669 --> 02:07:43,440
regarding the termination of when that

3643
02:07:47,430 --> 02:07:45,679
person needs to stop giving them money

3644
02:07:49,750 --> 02:07:47,440
monthly

3645
02:07:50,790 --> 02:07:49,760
that can actually cause people who are

3646
02:07:54,550 --> 02:07:50,800
vulnerable

3647
02:07:58,229 --> 02:07:54,560
in the ufo community to give away

3648
02:08:01,750 --> 02:07:58,239
their income to a person like this

3649
02:08:03,589 --> 02:08:01,760
and i found that absolutely unacceptable

3650
02:08:05,109 --> 02:08:03,599
so what i did was i went to this

3651
02:08:08,390 --> 02:08:05,119
individual and i

3652
02:08:11,510 --> 02:08:08,400
asked her about it and i also

3653
02:08:15,270 --> 02:08:11,520
asked her director why are you

3654
02:08:18,870 --> 02:08:15,280
asking for money monthly the answer

3655
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:18,880
was nonsensical the answer from

3656
02:08:22,390 --> 02:08:20,639
that individual with 24 different

3657
02:08:26,310 --> 02:08:22,400
profiles was

3658
02:08:29,510 --> 02:08:26,320
and her name is tj morris

3659
02:08:32,550 --> 02:08:29,520
teresa thurmond morris

3660
02:08:36,310 --> 02:08:32,560
she did a post stating that she was

3661
02:08:40,069 --> 02:08:36,320
helping humanoid sentient beings

3662
02:08:44,310 --> 02:08:40,079
be elevated out of poverty okay

3663
02:08:45,910 --> 02:08:44,320
now that not only does not make sense

3664
02:08:48,069 --> 02:08:45,920
but she was also saying that she was

3665
02:08:52,069 --> 02:08:48,079
going to help educate them

3666
02:08:55,430 --> 02:08:52,079
well she didn't explain how either so

3667
02:08:59,109 --> 02:08:55,440
now can you see why that kind

3668
02:09:01,350 --> 02:08:59,119
of answer is not acceptable

3669
02:09:03,830 --> 02:09:01,360
regarding demanding money monthly from

3670
02:09:04,390 --> 02:09:03,840
folks that she's basically going to

3671
02:09:07,830 --> 02:09:04,400
funnel

3672
02:09:09,189 --> 02:09:07,840
any funds that she gets to humanoid

3673
02:09:12,229 --> 02:09:09,199
sentient beings

3674
02:09:14,709 --> 02:09:12,239
that need to be educated by her and then

3675
02:09:15,510 --> 02:09:14,719
lifted and elevated up to whatever level

3676
02:09:18,390 --> 02:09:15,520
i'm not sure

3677
02:09:20,229 --> 02:09:18,400
maybe to be abducted i don't know but i

3678
02:09:23,350 --> 02:09:20,239
talked to her director

3679
02:09:26,550 --> 02:09:23,360
uh and i actually demanded

3680
02:09:29,030 --> 02:09:26,560
from him answers as to why

3681
02:09:31,030 --> 02:09:29,040
they needed money monthly and he told me

3682
02:09:35,189 --> 02:09:31,040
that it was for patches

3683
02:09:38,229 --> 02:09:35,199
insignias and flags for their uniforms

3684
02:09:39,910 --> 02:09:38,239
because they have uniforms that he and

3685
02:09:43,510 --> 02:09:39,920
tj morris plan to

3686
02:09:44,149 --> 02:09:43,520
wear at ufo conventions we're talking

3687
02:09:48,470 --> 02:09:44,159
about ken

3688
02:09:50,550 --> 02:09:48,480
johnson the civilian astronaut

3689
02:09:52,149 --> 02:09:50,560
is her director or was at that time

3690
02:09:55,510 --> 02:09:52,159
anyway of her aco

3691
02:09:59,030 --> 02:09:55,520
organization when i called them

3692
02:10:02,709 --> 02:09:59,040
out on that she started going all

3693
02:10:04,310 --> 02:10:02,719
over social media making all kinds of

3694
02:10:07,350 --> 02:10:04,320
crazy posts on these

3695
02:10:10,629 --> 02:10:07,360
saying all kinds of lies and one of her

3696
02:10:14,149 --> 02:10:10,639
own administrators of her

3697
02:10:18,709 --> 02:10:14,159
ufo group caina my aid

3698
02:10:22,629 --> 02:10:18,719
and my defense and actually

3699
02:10:25,910 --> 02:10:22,639
um uh told tj

3700
02:10:29,589 --> 02:10:25,920
that what she was saying was

3701
02:10:31,589 --> 02:10:29,599
incorrect and what tj did was she

3702
02:10:33,430 --> 02:10:31,599
sidestepped it she didn't address it

3703
02:10:35,109 --> 02:10:33,440
and she continued her social media hate

3704
02:10:37,109 --> 02:10:35,119
campaign against me to the point where

3705
02:10:40,149 --> 02:10:37,119
she tried contacting me through skype

3706
02:10:42,950 --> 02:10:40,159
through email through messenger through

3707
02:10:43,990 --> 02:10:42,960
facebook oh i mean all manner ways

3708
02:10:45,750 --> 02:10:44,000
stalking me

3709
02:10:48,470 --> 02:10:45,760
to the point where i just had to block

3710
02:10:51,350 --> 02:10:48,480
her uh so

3711
02:10:53,030 --> 02:10:51,360
but what she said was still out there so

3712
02:10:56,390 --> 02:10:53,040
what basically erica

3713
02:10:57,270 --> 02:10:56,400
did was without doing her own due

3714
02:10:59,750 --> 02:10:57,280
diligence

3715
02:11:01,910 --> 02:10:59,760
and doing actual research which she's

3716
02:11:02,950 --> 02:11:01,920
beginning to be known for or already has

3717
02:11:06,790 --> 02:11:02,960
been known for

3718
02:11:10,470 --> 02:11:06,800
for not doing research

3719
02:11:13,510 --> 02:11:10,480
or source checking is check to see if

3720
02:11:16,790 --> 02:11:13,520
the person who did that post had

3721
02:11:19,990 --> 02:11:16,800
anything uh authentic or

3722
02:11:23,109 --> 02:11:20,000
fact-based to say uh so

3723
02:11:24,950 --> 02:11:23,119
when that post had to be taken down for

3724
02:11:28,310 --> 02:11:24,960
legal reasons

3725
02:11:30,870 --> 02:11:28,320
erica didn't bother to check at all

3726
02:11:32,069 --> 02:11:30,880
she reposted it and it ended up

3727
02:11:34,229 --> 02:11:32,079
eventually becoming an

3728
02:11:36,229 --> 02:11:34,239
empty post because again that

3729
02:11:37,910 --> 02:11:36,239
information had to be taken down

3730
02:11:39,350 --> 02:11:37,920
now that's what i'm talking about you're

3731
02:11:42,229 --> 02:11:39,360
at the original website

3732
02:11:42,629 --> 02:11:42,239
where it was posted on the website so so

3733
02:11:45,270 --> 02:11:42,639
then

3734
02:11:46,149 --> 02:11:45,280
uh erica's reposting of that original

3735
02:11:49,109 --> 02:11:46,159
website

3736
02:11:50,870 --> 02:11:49,119
fake information on me ended up becoming

3737
02:11:53,350 --> 02:11:50,880
empty meaning there was no information

3738
02:11:55,030 --> 02:11:53,360
we had that information had to be

3739
02:11:57,430 --> 02:11:55,040
deleted it was a picture of me which was

3740
02:12:00,550 --> 02:11:57,440
fine but information that was fake

3741
02:12:03,990 --> 02:12:00,560
um and uh lies basically

3742
02:12:06,229 --> 02:12:04,000
had no factual information about me

3743
02:12:07,430 --> 02:12:06,239
whatsoever and the post actually didn't

3744
02:12:10,069 --> 02:12:07,440
even make sense

3745
02:12:11,669 --> 02:12:10,079
like so when this mentally deranged

3746
02:12:15,510 --> 02:12:11,679
individual starts talking

3747
02:12:18,310 --> 02:12:15,520
it just sounds like um word salad

3748
02:12:19,910 --> 02:12:18,320
yeah you know and uh well that's that's

3749
02:12:22,229 --> 02:12:19,920
a sign of psychosis

3750
02:12:24,390 --> 02:12:22,239
it is and the fact that they have 24

3751
02:12:27,589 --> 02:12:24,400
different profiles did not seem

3752
02:12:30,950 --> 02:12:27,599
to make a difference to erica whatsoever

3753
02:12:32,790 --> 02:12:30,960
if anything i guess her her

3754
02:12:34,069 --> 02:12:32,800
personal feelings towards me whatever

3755
02:12:35,990 --> 02:12:34,079
they are

3756
02:12:37,109 --> 02:12:36,000
apparently just encouraged her to do

3757
02:12:40,310 --> 02:12:37,119
this post

3758
02:12:41,430 --> 02:12:40,320
um so what ended up happening was erica

3759
02:12:44,629 --> 02:12:41,440
shopped around

3760
02:12:47,990 --> 02:12:44,639
that uh slanderous post about me

3761
02:12:49,830 --> 02:12:48,000
as though it were fact and when you

3762
02:12:52,069 --> 02:12:49,840
do that what you're doing is you're

3763
02:12:55,189 --> 02:12:52,079
putting someone's life

3764
02:12:58,550 --> 02:12:55,199
and family uh at risk

3765
02:13:00,390 --> 02:12:58,560
because uh you're actually saying hey

3766
02:13:01,109 --> 02:13:00,400
this is real this is true about this

3767
02:13:04,069 --> 02:13:01,119
person

3768
02:13:04,629 --> 02:13:04,079
that's just not fair to do i have never

3769
02:13:07,510 --> 02:13:04,639
ever

3770
02:13:08,069 --> 02:13:07,520
made a post about anyone unless it was

3771
02:13:11,189 --> 02:13:08,079
based on

3772
02:13:13,910 --> 02:13:11,199
fact now uh uh i

3773
02:13:15,030 --> 02:13:13,920
i think it's important that everybody

3774
02:13:19,430 --> 02:13:15,040
understands

3775
02:13:23,430 --> 02:13:19,440
that erica luke's needs

3776
02:13:26,470 --> 02:13:23,440
needs to come come to the conclusion

3777
02:13:29,030 --> 02:13:26,480
that she's either here to

3778
02:13:31,350 --> 02:13:29,040
help us and lift us up in the ufo

3779
02:13:32,470 --> 02:13:31,360
community and he'll continue on with the

3780
02:13:35,830 --> 02:13:32,480
research and knowledge

3781
02:13:36,629 --> 02:13:35,840
that we all desire uh and do on a

3782
02:13:39,510 --> 02:13:36,639
regular

3783
02:13:40,870 --> 02:13:39,520
or is she going to continue acting in a

3784
02:13:44,149 --> 02:13:40,880
nefarious manner

3785
02:13:46,870 --> 02:13:44,159
which she has been on a consistent basis

3786
02:13:47,430 --> 02:13:46,880
and not lift us up and bring us together

3787
02:13:50,629 --> 02:13:47,440
um

3788
02:13:52,229 --> 02:13:50,639
uh i i personally that

3789
02:13:54,149 --> 02:13:52,239
that'll never happen i mean it's a part

3790
02:13:54,950 --> 02:13:54,159
of the profile you know these people are

3791
02:13:57,669 --> 02:13:54,960
incurable

3792
02:13:57,990 --> 02:13:57,679
i understand you know that's fine that's

3793
02:14:00,629 --> 02:13:58,000
fine

3794
02:14:02,709 --> 02:14:00,639
you know look j allen heineck did an

3795
02:14:04,629 --> 02:14:02,719
about face in the ufo community

3796
02:14:06,629 --> 02:14:04,639
and i'm not saying she said she is no

3797
02:14:09,270 --> 02:14:06,639
jay alan heineck okay

3798
02:14:10,069 --> 02:14:09,280
absolutely not but for the sake of a

3799
02:14:13,430 --> 02:14:10,079
parallel

3800
02:14:15,750 --> 02:14:13,440
for an example wanted to say he was very

3801
02:14:18,870 --> 02:14:15,760
brave and courageous regarding science

3802
02:14:21,910 --> 02:14:18,880
now can erica luke's be that brave

3803
02:14:22,950 --> 02:14:21,920
regarding the social aspect of the ufo

3804
02:14:26,310 --> 02:14:22,960
community

3805
02:14:28,629 --> 02:14:26,320
can she actually say you know what

3806
02:14:31,430 --> 02:14:28,639
i'm going to go ahead and attack the

3807
02:14:34,629 --> 02:14:31,440
topic of ufology rather than people

3808
02:14:35,990 --> 02:14:34,639
i have yet to see that happen

3809
02:14:38,149 --> 02:14:36,000
all right well let's not do the whole

3810
02:14:40,229 --> 02:14:38,159
show now well just so you know

3811
02:14:42,390 --> 02:14:40,239
chase kletzke is actually commenting

3812
02:14:44,470 --> 02:14:42,400
here and i'm glad that she's here

3813
02:14:45,510 --> 02:14:44,480
because uh you know i have nothing but

3814
02:14:48,229 --> 02:14:45,520
the greatest

3815
02:14:49,750 --> 02:14:48,239
and deepest respect for her and i also

3816
02:14:50,790 --> 02:14:49,760
wanted to mention i was on the dave

3817
02:14:52,629 --> 02:14:50,800
scott show

3818
02:14:55,430 --> 02:14:52,639
uh i was on a few of his shows one of

3819
02:14:57,990 --> 02:14:55,440
them i actually quoted chase klutzky

3820
02:14:58,790 --> 02:14:58,000
in a very respectful and admiring manner

3821
02:15:02,390 --> 02:14:58,800
why

3822
02:15:05,830 --> 02:15:02,400
has spent

3823
02:15:08,229 --> 02:15:05,840
a couple or more decades deeply embedded

3824
02:15:11,350 --> 02:15:08,239
and involved in the ufo community

3825
02:15:15,109 --> 02:15:11,360
working her her ass off and

3826
02:15:17,430 --> 02:15:15,119
uh basing doing everything she can

3827
02:15:18,629 --> 02:15:17,440
to base what she does on evidence and

3828
02:15:21,669 --> 02:15:18,639
real research

3829
02:15:25,430 --> 02:15:21,679
is something that erica luke's has

3830
02:15:27,750 --> 02:15:25,440
yet to learn well there you go all right

3831
02:15:29,750 --> 02:15:27,760
so uh final message for me are you done

3832
02:15:31,350 --> 02:15:29,760
are you finally done

3833
02:15:32,790 --> 02:15:31,360
all right all right i'm gonna mute your

3834
02:15:35,990 --> 02:15:32,800
mic so i can wrap the show

3835
02:15:37,910 --> 02:15:36,000
you do it all right so uh yep

3836
02:15:39,189 --> 02:15:37,920
uh great show thanks again to dr michael

3837
02:15:42,550 --> 02:15:39,199
masters remember

3838
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:42,560
uh wednesday night alejandra rojas and a

3839
02:15:46,790 --> 02:15:43,840
final message

3840
02:15:48,149 --> 02:15:46,800
uh to all our friends and uh to erica

3841
02:15:50,310 --> 02:15:48,159
and her friends uh